Racism threads.

[Cranberri]

Anyone else feel a bit uncomfortable with the spike in threads about racism? I don't mind a healthy debate about racism but many threads recently seem to have brought out the worst in people. Mnhq having to delete numerous comments due to racism. Ignorant or culturally unaware posters writing ridiculous posts that would simply not be accepted in day to day life. People claiming racism when it isn't.

I'm tired of it. Is anyone else tired of it? It's really draining...

@SalemBlackCat
I think you need to take a seat and listen rather than jumping up and down inanely!

This is simply not true, however frequently you repeat it. Providing some examples of men being penalised does not "prove" that they get equivalent penalties overall

It's up to you to prove that Williams is unfairly targeted, although I rather suspect you can't.

Also, as an aside, William's tantrum mate the US open final all about her, when really it should have been about Naomi Osaka - the rightful winner. Instead what should have been a glorious moment - her first grand slam victory was high jacked and taken away from her. The SJWs don't talk about that though, it would almost seem that the only WOC that matter are African American.

It's up to you to prove that Williams is unfairly targeted, although I rather suspect you can't

I'm not making the statement that it "has been proven" that men get the same treatment. Salem is.

I do get terribly bored of white people telling POC what is and isn't racism. White people don't get to decide that

Also don't like divisive statements such as the only WOC 'that matter are African-Americans', I'm a woman of colour, I'm not African-American and I do support Serena Williams, and recognise the ways in which her life has been impacted not just by sexism but by institutional forms of racism.

I really dont like the term poc. Dont know where it came from but smacks of the prevelant use of the term coloured in the 60s.

I also don't appreciate people trying to deflect discussions about serious issues/discussions around racism by seeking to minimise it and use pejorative, lazy ad hominem attacks like labelling everyone as 'SJWs'. Women of colour are a politically diverse group, concerns about racism range across a range of potential political groupings and affiliations. Although all that such posters are doing in this context is demonstrating that the premise behind the thread is sound.

I use it because I am mixed-race with parents who did not fit into one or even two ethnic categories, so none of the other terms fit me. I'm sorry if my background is too diverse to fit the other narrower categories on offer!

Also I don't really like mixed-race as it assumes a pure starting point that is then 'mixed' up, nor is biracial any good because I am more than two!

Also on a thread where people may be biracial, Asian, Black or part of a range of other possible ethnic backgrounds women of colour or people of colour seems the most inclusive term, as the definition encompasses all possible groups. So I will continue to use the term until someone provides me with some reasonable alternatives.

Dottierichardson
How you choose to define yourself is entirely your perogotive as it is mine. I do not choose to use a term that puts me in mind of racist slurs used during my childhood. Sorry if that offends you.

Reasonable alternativea include the term people from a BAME community. Or people of X decent.

So what is your alternative term that includes the wide range of possible ethnic identities subject to racism?

Perhaps then you should state your preferences in threads as some people state their pronouns. But starting out by not doing that and instead implying that other people on the thread are somehow being deliberately offensive by using the term ...of colour', and I'm not the only one who uses that term, is a bit goady.

It also seems odd to do that because it comes across as picking a fight with other BAME women who are trying to support each other in response to the rise in racism on MN in general.

What you could have said is that women of colour or person of colour has negative associations for you and would other posters mind using BAME instead. I think you would find that people would be happy to do so if it is so uncomfortable for you.

,However as there are people who will look at this thread and not be aware of variations in terminology this may be helpful to them:

"Students of mine who are unversed in race politics frequently use the phrase “colored people.” They hear me use the phrase “people of color” and assume that the phrases are equivalent. This is a truly reasonable assumption, even as people familiar with race-based struggle know for sure that “colored” is an offensive term and “people of color” is typically not considered so.

Occasionally a student asks me what the difference is and, to be frank, I’m not quite sure. I’ve simply absorbed the rules of talking-about-race and have a good idea of how to do so in ways that reflect grass roots language claims.

Accordingly, I was really excited to see a clip of famed activist Loretta Ross at Racialicious explaining the history of the phrase “women of color,” and later “people of color.” She explains that, while “colored people” was a phrase used to delegitimate
black- and brown-skinned people, “people of color” was coined by activists hoping to bring all non-white people together into a coalition against racism."

thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/03/26/loreta-ross-on-the-phrase-women-of-color/

Dottierichardson I dont see it as being goady at all. I said I dont like the term and gave my reasons. I also said how a person chooses to define themselves is their choice. As part of the post covered definitions early on along with word choices I felt it was a relevant point.
If you disagree thats your perogotive but it does not make me wrong for raising it.

Well at least you now have the answer to your question about where the term came from, and it has a respectable background, was not used to other BAME people or imposed from outside.

I don't think a yes vote for brexit, means more racism. Saying hang on a minute I'm concerned about the level of immigration into the country. Because hospitals and schools are already at breaking point, and affordable housing is a difficult resource for many is not racist. It's being sold as such because it suits the other sides narrative of shutting down an argument before it begins.

If being concerned about uncontrolled levels of immigration makes me racist then so be it. I know im not and my self worth doesn't hinge on a strangers opinion.

But yes I agree op a lot of racism threads. I'm surprised there hasn't been one aboyt the police officer who said whiter than white as a analogy for pure who's now been suspended.

I actually prefer the term 'woman of colour' because it has a history within the fight against racism going back to the 70s, whereas BAME feels more like a category on a form:

"Well, a funny thing happened in Houston: when they took the Black Women’s Agenda to Houston, then all the rest of the “minority” women of color wanted to be included in the “Black Women’s Agenda.” Okay? Well, [the Black women] agreed…but you could no longer call it the “Black Women’s Agenda.” And it was in those negotiations in Houston [that] the term “women of color” was created. Okay? And they didn’t see it as a biological designation—you’re born Asian, you’re born Black, you’re born African American, whatever—but it is a solidarity definition, a commitment to work in collaboration with other oppressed women of color who have been “minoritized.” Now, what’s happened in the 30 years since then is that people see it as biology now. (Murmurs of understanding, agreement) You know? Like, “Okay…” And people are saying they don’t want to be defined as a woman of color: “I am Black, “I am Asian American”…and that’s fine. But why are you reducing a political designation to a biological destiny? (Murmurs of agreement) That’s what white supremacy wants you to do. And I think it’s a setback when we disintegrate as people of color around primitive ethnic claiming. Yes, we are Asian American, Native American, whatever, but the point is, when you choose to work with other people who are minoritized by oppression, you’ve lifted yourself out of that basic identity into another political being and another political space. And, unfortunately, so many times, people of color hear the term “people of color” from other white people that [PoCs} think white people created it instead of understanding that we self-named ourselves. This is term that has a lot of power for us. But we’ve done a poor-ass job of communicating that history so that people understand that power."

@salem and @sound how can you say it’s been proven she hasn’t been treated differently? Male tennis players have come out and said that they have done the same and not been penalised. Naomi was also being coached but wasn’t penalised. It can’t be proven, as the only cases you’ll find are those were the tennis player have been punished.

I'm surprised there hasn't been one aboyt the police officer who said whiter than white as a analogy for pure who's now been suspended.

No way?

@claryfray Many many people who have experienced the rise in racism since the Brexit vote disagree with you. I disagree with you as many people who’d previously not said racist things are now coming out and saying it, like it’s allowed now. You’re being woefully ignorant if you think that argument hasn’t been hijacked by racists as a way of legitimising their viewpoint.