Racism threads.

[Cranberri]

Anyone else feel a bit uncomfortable with the spike in threads about racism? I don't mind a healthy debate about racism but many threads recently seem to have brought out the worst in people. Mnhq having to delete numerous comments due to racism. Ignorant or culturally unaware posters writing ridiculous posts that would simply not be accepted in day to day life. People claiming racism when it isn't.

I'm tired of it. Is anyone else tired of it? It's really draining...

I know people don’t like this but your loud mounts brexit person usually working class dosent effect me

Because generally your poor white rasict has no power the real worry for me is the middle class racist who pretends to be woke because they effect wether my child gets into uni effects if I get hired effects legislation and effects how I am policed as a black person

A person who calls me a wog walking down the road who works In Quick fit

Is far less dangerous than the judge who would never say such a think in polite society but thinks it none the less for example

rightknockeredtheir was a thread a while back about somone who’s neighbor was racist but the shock from the op that he was university educated

As if only white working class are rasicts

Aa if some how having a degree makes you above all that

And it’s that arrogance that is dangerous

I think the absolute worst is the amount that the idea of white supremacy has been soaked up by my own race, so that the lighter skinned people are most superior, the dying hair so it looks like European colours, the fawning over my ginger haired and green-eyed Aunts and cousins. It's hard to eradicate this historical idea of white supremacy, usually based on what the great white male conqueror used to gain a foothold and obedience from the natives.

Brexit = racism.

UK/ well maybe England wants it to be that way.

Refute that now. What an awful thing Brexit will be. Apart from anything else.

Those threads really make me feel bad. There's so much underlying racism and contempt and lack of understanding and on those threads it all comes out.

I’ve noticed it. MN has changed dramatically since I joined in 2012. There is a lot less intelligent debate and discussion, far less willingness to listen to the experience of others who are better placed to inform.

I'm white and try to be aware of my privilege. But it's very easy for me to be complacent and think that there isn't that much racism (at least in my ordinary, day-to-day life and the circles I work and mix in).

But I'm appalled, and have been so much more recently, about the rise of racist posts and posters on Mumsnet. I'm prepared (grudgingly) to believe that some of this is due to ignorance. But what's really shocked me is the way posters are prepared to defend their views, and will not accept that what they're saying is racist in any way shape or form.

I don't think it's draining - it's horribly shocking. (But I get that you would find it draining having constantly have to argue against the bigoted posts)

I have noticed a significant increase in the number of posts expressing racist views, and posts from white people only too happy to lecture those of us who are not on what we should, and shouldn't, find offensive and insulting.

It is wearing and somewhat scary.

OberonTheHopeful

Has it ever been diffrent

Oh the fucking irony.

They are certainly more prevalent recently and I think the thing that upsets me most is the deliberate obtuseness and disingenuousness on some threads.

"Why can't someone have a nostalgic golliwog ornament on their desk?"
"Why would you find a stuffed monkey in the office offensive?"
"What's wrong with saying 'call a spade a spade'?"
"Surely if we're discussing the n word we should be able to write it in full, it's a discussion we're not directing it at someone".

I picture them sitting there behind their monitors snickering to themselves in full white hood and cloak knowledge of what's wrong with it because they've tricked some other poster into having to spell out the reasons why it's wrong.

I used to dive in in all sincerity but now I suspect every such thread is a dog-whistle and I refuse to give them the satisfaction. One thing though, it does expose a few regular non-name changers and I learn that way who I don't want to engage with on other topics.

You’re absolutely right OP. I leave and return to MN from time to time since initially joining in 2014 because my head hurts. I’m sure most posters don’t have non-white friends IRL. I’m sure they wouldn’t utter the racist and offensive garbage they post here IRL to non-white people. I’m a black woman and prefer posting/reading things on FB/Insta. At least I can see and prepare myself for what’s coming with the profile pic before ‘investing’ my time. I like the anonymity of MN for some things but it’s never long before I leave again because of the racist comments/people living on a completely different planet. It’s bloody exhausting.

I worry for my kids because they’ll probably go to school with the kids of my RL white friends who are probably on MN typing the N word in full 5 times and telling other white posters that it’s perfectly fine to do this now (because it’s 2018 and times have changed).

I’m white, I fully appreciate the privilege that goes along with that.

On a recent, to my eyes, racist thread, I recommended the op read ‘Why I am no longer speaking to white people about race’.

I believe it should be taught on the national curriculum. As well as British Black History. It is an eye opening read, I didn’t find it a difficult book to read, because I’m not secretly a racist twat, but it is without a doubt one of the most significant books I have I read in recent years. There were many, many points I already agreed with but some I hadn’t considered and it opened my eyes that bit more.

Posters lately just seem to not want to listen, or learn. They just want to be right and will argue to the hilt that they are, despite (extraordinarily) patient explanations to the contrary from POC.

Aibu is hardly the place for nuanced debate

@SemperIdem whats the general message of the book? I picked it up to purchase but got sidetracked.

I find the minimisation of racism on these recent post more disheartening than overtly racist ones, as such minimisation allows space for racist attitudes to be normalised and accepted by mainstream society. They embed the message that as a black person I have no right to define my own experience of racial abuse, so I do get sucked into them to challenge it.

It is draining and annoying but neccesary to voice the notion that such viewpoints are not to be tollerated.

"what's really shocked me is the way posters are prepared to defend their views, and will not accept that what they're saying is racist in any way shape or form."

This. I back off when the racism argument starts- no one ever says 'oh sorry, I didn't realise'. Lots of people truly don't realise, that's ok, but not to bluster and defend themselves.

YANBU and this is why I frequent MN less and less. A real nasty element has increased over the years. They feign nativity or are just down right racist but won’t listen to reason. The cloak of anonymity emboldens them

However, if it were a man coming on to minimise sexism, mansplain or be just overtly offensive to women e.g. ‘AIBU to display my page 3 memorabilia on my desk opposite the only woman in my male dominated office?’, ‘there’s no such thing as gender pay gap why do women keep moaning?’, ‘it’s 2018, there’s no sexism anymore, men and women are equal’, ‘AIBU to think women now have more rights than men?’, ‘women should be paid less, it’s their fault for having babies’,’I will never employ a female of child bearing age’, ‘AIBU to think if a woman’s over 25 she’s unattractive?’, ‘yes I’m an old ugly fat man but old fat women should be judged more harshly’, ‘you can’t say anything these days’, ‘they are over sensitive’ etc etc most of these racists would be apoplectic with rage.

And as PP said it’s tiring having to argue or educate people so I no longer bother. I do not buy into the faux naïveté some people claim to have either. NT adults of average intelligence know how to behave.

Eventually internet anonymity will no longer be a thing and these people risk having their dark thoughts exposed to the world. I for one look forward to that day.

OP you are not wrong at all.
Its a bit shocking and I've been here since the Ark.

the faux naivety pisses me right off

I'm really glad there are some sensible people here. Thank you. The first comment I got on this thread made me think it was going to go the same way.

I've actually read the Rennie Eddo Lodge book and didn't enjoy it. I understood the sentiment but thought it was poorly written and imagine people are only amazed by it because it's so controversial.

@Cranberri
The posts which accuses you of being racist for calling out racism or use the phrase “playing the race card are most depressing”...

@Ghanagirl I HATE that term. The race card... there's no such thing.

Would you say the 'gay gay card'? The 'disability card'? 'The pregnancy card?' (Ok the last one is also probably a yes) - but yes, it's an awful term and I've seen it on here a fair amount.

It is a way of shutting down those who have taken the brave choice to call out racism. awful.

Cranberri I haven't read the Renni Eddo Lodge, I'm not white so assumed wasn't addressed to readers like me, but know that a lot of people have found it really useful. I have read Akala's recent book as well as Afua Hirsch's and thought they were both excellent, Akala has a particularly powerful voice. They were really interesting on some of the issues raised here.

Like you and other posters I'm sick of the 'racism' threads, I can't work out if they're actually spontaneous posts or planted for some reason. A suspicious number are from first-time posters/nc-ers. But they crop up all the time at the moment and posters like RibbonAurora summed them up brilliantly.

What is really hard is that just from reading the OP post I know what's coming...I try to stay out of them, but some of the comments are so offensive/idiotic it's hard to let them stand, also some of the 'naive' posters seem genuine so hope that can make them see the problem. But that's probably futile.

It is really putting me off MN though, even less direct threads are starting to get to me, I noticed, for example, that more than one thread making negative comments about a transgender Labour officer were pulled by MNHQ but endless threads targetting Serena Williams as a means of making negative comments about black women are allowed to stand.

Also those who yell ‘sparking a debate’ or ‘freedom of speech’ would be running towards the nearest policeman if freedom of speech was directed at that themselves or their families. Would they honestly sit quietly, nodding approvingly if I targeted their teenage daughter and called her a ‘fat bitch’? Some teens are known to use that language so surely it’s only freedom of speech for me to call their daughter that to their face?

They purposely muddle freedom of speech and just plain terrible and offensive manners. These people also never punch upwards, always down. It’s becuase they feel powerless and their lives are a disappointment in real life so it makes them feel a little bit powerful online. Pathetic. Every time I see a racist post I automatically think the author has a really sad life. ‘Winner’ is not the word that comes to mind.

@Dottierichardson I think the book is directed towards everyone. It's interesting but I just don't like the way it's written.

Akala is much more powerful in my opinion. He's fantastic.

They aren't all planted (I started one a while back completely naive to how it would turn out. Name changed since then).

Yes, it's shocking. I can't get my head round it all and find it so, so saddening. It's draining. I was close to leaving mn at one point simply due to the racism that's allowed to stand on here.

One golliwog thread recently which mn proved to be genuine, and was a really bizarre situation for the OP to be in, some people denied the fact she was even black...