Racism threads.

[Cranberri]

Anyone else feel a bit uncomfortable with the spike in threads about racism? I don't mind a healthy debate about racism but many threads recently seem to have brought out the worst in people. Mnhq having to delete numerous comments due to racism. Ignorant or culturally unaware posters writing ridiculous posts that would simply not be accepted in day to day life. People claiming racism when it isn't.

I'm tired of it. Is anyone else tired of it? It's really draining...

The vitriol shown towards black women on here also shocks me. Witness the recent threads about Serena Williams (winner of 23 Slams) where she was called "a diva bitch" and accused of "playing the black card". Or Diane Abbott (Oxbridge graduate and first black female MP) who a poster said "strutted around like a secretary from the typing pool who'd been sleeping with the boss". I've never seen such awful comments directed towards Theresa May. Criticism yes, but never that level of vitriol.

And of course when you suggest that such comments might be racially motivated, then people take great offence. It's almost like being accused of racism is worse than actual racism on here.

I recently reported a thread to MNHQ who replied saying that it was best left up to be "robustly argued". It isn't the job of people of colour to educate the ignorant!

I bought a book White Fragility which is written by a woman, who is also white, who does workshops on racial sensitivity. She has various lists of ways in which people try to avoid confronting racism or deny it outright and I entertain myself working out which categories the dodgy posters fit into, it's interesting how incredibly predictable they are.

QueenOfTheAndals Know what you mean, as if racism was up for debate!

I’ve never bothered reporting racist slurs/arguements on here because honestly, what’s the point?! I just put the site on Time Out when it starts giving me the rage.
Posters have been typing out the N word for years now and screaming at black women to “get over it”. It’s tolerated here. Queens’ post doesn’t surprise me at all.

I know there is an extended MN code of conduct for threads that relate to transgender, I think it's time there was something similar applied to threads on race and racism.

I actually think Brexit has brought out the racists as they think it’s ok to voice their views. It’s currently saving me a lot of time when meeting people as they are making a comment and then tittering oh but we shouldn’t say that. Conversation over.

I don’t think the racist views are new on mumsnet once again I think people hid them better. School threads have been racist since 2010 at least. Mumsnetters asking if they are wrong to not want to send their white child to a school where the school is 99% from one country in Africa and mumsnetters agreeing with them. Then a thread the opposite about a mixed race child and mumsnetters are all over it that it’s wrong and they should suck it up. How is that not racist?
The issue is most of us have racist views, accepting that fact and then challenging our own racist views is the only way to move forward. One of my best friends constantly battles through racist comments, I honestly don’t know how she does it and answers them sweetly with a smile.

I would start with things like no more 'golliwog' threads, take the most balanced put it on MN classics or somewhere it will survive, let people consult that, but not add any more. Ban use of N-word unless asterisked - certain terms are banned for anyone discussing transgender issues.

I really struggle with the racism shown towards the traveller community on MN. I manage to get a few posts deleted but the sheer number of them becomes quite overwhelming.

I appreciate that this is a smaller issue compared to the racist threads addressing BAME matters so you have my support/sympathy in trying to challenge these issues.

I don’t think the racist views are new on mumsnet once again I think people hid them better.

Think you're right, there's a history of not dealing with these issues in the UK, and all these things have persisted under the surface. I also wonder if many of the more racist posters want to put off people of colour, it must be a problem for them interacting with people they can't easily identify.

Agree traveller issues just as important, also threads on anti-Semitism have been quite dodgy recently.

@Cranberri. I admit that I did not believe the golliwog thread by the black poster at first (I’m mixed race). I saw the title thought ‘here we go again’ and responded to that effect. The problem is I’ve seen so many golliwog threads written by racists that I’m deeply suspect when I see them because in real life I know nobody left or right wing (I don’t live in an echo chamber I socialise with people with different outlooks) who would think a golliwog was ok. When it was made clear the poster wasn’t another wind up merchant attempting to ‘spark debate’ I apologised.

I’m also very uncomfortable hearing that MN allowed racist posts to stand on order to allow ‘robust debate’. Why is it when it comes to race we can have robust debate but on transgender we can’t? Maybe MNHQ need to think about the diversity of their staff. It would be like a group of men deciding what is acceptable areas of robust debate for women. It does nothing to dispel the belief among many WoC that feminism is a white woman’s movement.

I’ve never bothered reporting racist slurs/arguements on here because honestly, what’s the point?! I just put the site on Time Out when it starts giving me the rage.
Posters have been typing out the N word for years now and screaming at black women to “get over it”. It’s tolerated here.

Yes MNHQ are really disappointing in this regard. I've noticed the double standards. I just don't read those threads any more. Sick of talking to white people about race.

"Or Diane Abbott (Oxbridge graduate and first black female MP) who a poster said "strutted around like a secretary from the typing pool who'd been sleeping with the boss". That thread really sticks in my mind as the first time I properly noticed the extraordinary level of real and faux ignorance on here- both racist and misogynist.

I wonder then if there is a way to bring this dissapointment to mnhq attention. Equally if certain terms/words are banned and approaches to groups such as transgender why does the same not apply to racism on forums?.

There must be a way of highlighting it, particularly since from following some of the threads that have been mentioned there are a significant number of regular posters who clearly find the threads offensive and uncomfortable. I'm sure that there are many members would support a move to improve the policies about discussion of race/racism.

We could ask for this thread to be moved to the MNHQ section, I've notice that's where the feminist groups hold discussions with MNHQ about what is/isn't acceptable in FWR. And retitle it so it's clear that what it's about to attract more posters?

It's getting to the time when people take kids to school/leave for work, so maybe we should bump this thread early evening? And take it from there?

I've not seen the worst examples referred to here- I'm shocked and disgusted. Generally I dislike posts being deleted for 'ism' because I think there are genuinely naive people (me included) who need to 'get' it.
The Golly is interesting. I think that children in the 50s and 60s loved their gollies and didn't associate them with racist ideas. They grew up into people who defend them now. I needed to have it explained to me. It's one of those things that once you have seen, you can't unsee.
I was shocked by that cartoon of Serena, as well, and the thread on here criticising her for claiming sexism. I'm not very clued up, but that was so glaringly evident.

@Dottierichardson sounds like a reasonable suggestion but I think the OP would need to be the one to get the post moved?

“I think that children in the 50s and 60s loved their gollies and didn't associate them with racist ideas. ”

As I have said before, my mother explained to me why gollywogs (not gollies, or gollidolls- gollywogs) were wrong in about 1965. She was born in 1920.

There is no excuse for willful ignorance.

People have known the offence caused by caricature for as long as there has been art.

And your response to being tired of threads about racism was...to start a thread about racism?

What a daft comment. Yes let's all bury our heads and ignore the fact there's a continuous undercurrent of racism on MN

In fairness to MNHQ, I can say that every post I have reported for racism has been deleted. And I have reported quite a few, especially in the last few months.

I'm on here quite a bit too much grin and can't say I've seen lots of those threads lately? So not sure what's warranted your AIBU post really confused
You'll occasionally get the odd poster within threads with racist views, but I haven't seen any specific threads.

Well the amount of posters ageeeing with the op suggests you’re wrong doesn’t it

And there have been several threads specifically about race, as well as race always coming up on threads that start out about other things - threads about megan markle and serena william inevitably descend into a clusterfuck

It’s really ironic that you would say this on this thread when ‘I haven’t noticed it therefore it doesn’t exist’ is constantly used by white people to deny or minimise racism