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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

This tweet from South Yorkshire Police...

189 replies

SunsetBeetch · 10/09/2018 08:04

It's batshit, right? And rather frightening. Seriously, Orwell could have written it.

"In addition to reporting hate crime, please report non-crime hate incidents, which can include things like offensive or insulting comments, online, in person or in writing. Hate will not be tolerated in South Yorkshire. Report it and put a stop to it #HateHurtsSY"

t.co/p2xf6OLoQZ

This tweet from South Yorkshire Police...
OP posts:
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8
ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 11/09/2018 23:39

Ten thousand comments this tweet got.

This tweet from South Yorkshire Police...
MadameButterface · 11/09/2018 23:44

Whenever a law comes in aimed at offering marginalised people protection there is lots of hand wringing about it being ‘open to abuse’ by malicious people making things up isn’t there

People probably said similar when rape in marriage was outlawed ‘oh no it’s all he said she said’ ‘what about malicious reports’

Except in this case the report relates to online comments, so what he said and what she said should be fairly clear

So i wouldn’t worry if i were you :)

rainbowsandsmiles · 11/09/2018 23:47

Except in this case the report relates to online comments, so what he said and what she said should be fairly clear

If it is to do with trolling online, then that's a good thing as there's never a need for that and some comments on social media are vile.

rainbowsandsmiles · 11/09/2018 23:48

Plus if the abuse is in the form of tweets etc there's pretty much evidence right there.

ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 11/09/2018 23:59

Yeah, all good. Unless the trolling or abuse is aimed at those people, you know the ones...we used to call them women. As they are not on the list.

So fair game, AMIRITE?

PinkFlamingo888 · 12/09/2018 00:00

A hate crime is a crime aimed at protected characteristics ie gender, race, religion etc. So a non-crime hate incident is still around these characteristics but doesn’t constitute a criminal offence. Reporting these to the police will make them aware of offenders but I doubt will be proactively investigated as a priority. ‘Hate’ in a criminal sense is not just people being mean to one another, it is more serious than that therefore I can’t see why this idea has been received to negatively.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 12/09/2018 00:08

Is sex a protected characteristic yet?

Stickerladiesoftheworldunite · 12/09/2018 00:12

The tweet, and a couple of others iirr, were posted following an incident in Barnsley the day before. A woman was arrested in connection with the stabbing of a male in the centre. The related twitter stuff was very much about the woman being asian, in asian clothing, shouting various phrases, with possible accomplices, and was being shouted about on Twitter, following someone's ;witness' tweet about it being a terrorist attack.*

If it's the story I'm thinking of, there were also questions raised about the sex of this perpetrator, whether this is a woman or a transwoman though and it's possible trans activists put pressure on police to release such a tweet.

TheFormidableMrsC · 12/09/2018 01:07

@Gersemi I haven't actually although I have been thinking about it, particularly as the officer was an absolute prick and "warned" me to "stay away" from my ex-h's partner (I wasn't communicating with her, I was communicating with my ex-h about his lack of provision for our DS). The fact that the partner had sent me an astonishingly inaccurate, uninvited, harassing text message was apparently "irrelevant". I was livid. I do try not to get drawn into their endless fuckwittery, but that really did piss me off. Utterly ridiculous. I think I might pursue actually.

yorkrose · 12/09/2018 10:12

This might be a good way to boost their solved crime target performance ratings!

CanterSlow · 12/09/2018 10:41

I'm torn between this:

Whereas I would see it as useful for understanding where crime might flare up. So intelligence for preventative policing. budget planning and liaising with other agencies

and this

I'm over here in the U.S. and someone here posted that this morning on a political forum as an example of how shitty the U.K. has become

So, joking apart and there is plenty of mileage here Smile, there are a couple of underlying serious issues here. e.g. UK seems a bit more 'hatey' this last decade or so, lots more disrespect - from young people swearing to really angry drivers on the road. I'm not sure that 'logging' things will do all that much, but maybe it will help? OTOH the police must be aware of all this, but perhaps they like the data to feel able to do something. Its possibly about 'racist' comments only, but then again it is the same police force that did nothing in Rotherham. So its all a bit tricky and open to abuse by people with political aims.

dorisdog · 12/09/2018 13:25

It's about encouraging people to report incidents of possible hate speech - eg transphobic, misogynistic, racist incidents etc, that people may not think of as a 'proper' crime. It's a good thing. It doesn't infringe on freedom of speech, in fact it helps to create a society where marginalised people are able to walk the streets and have an online presence, without being subjected to bullying and harassment. It helps create more freedom for people.

Ereshkigal · 12/09/2018 14:28

can say I don't like someone's ideology or don't agree with their politics but I can't call a woman a fat slag or a teenage girl a dirty little whore.

Except you can. Misogyny is not counted as hate either as a hate crime or "hate incidents". Fill your boots.

TheWinterofOurDiscountTentsMk2 · 12/09/2018 14:33

It doesn't even make sense. What are the police going to do about people saying things to each other, that aren't crimes? It's none of their business, they have no power, and its a frankly disturbing yet idiotic notion at all.

GingerBadBoy · 12/09/2018 16:31

but can also be used for political purposes, people with a political ax to grind. say, unlike the Rotherham girls who were just hung out to dry, at least partly because of 'race sensitivity' re. pakistani men using white teens as prostitutes.

as a general tool it could be good though, in theory it has good possibilities. as long as not used for political purposes (which it could easily be - green light for that and police get more money for race relations industry etc etc). some people are very naieve to assume otherwise.

TheFormidableMrsC · 12/09/2018 16:38

@TheWinterofOurDiscountTentsMk2

It's funny you should say that...further to my post upthread, I got a solicitors letter on behalf of OW (ex-h's partner) when she found out that somebody she knew had had a conversation about her with somebody I knew (an employer/employee situation). I wasn't party to this conversation, nor did I know about it before I got the solicitors letter. The solicitor tried to tell me that that conversation was a "police matter". I am not quite sure how a private conversation between two individuals was a police matter. However, it was subsquently reported to the police I believe. I never heard anything and as far as I am aware neither did the other parties. However, here we had a solicitor telling her lunatic client that she could report this private conversation to the police. It boggles my brain.

Bluecloudyskies · 12/09/2018 16:41

Well going off that Twitter post my MIL is in deep shit!!

Aragog · 12/09/2018 17:11

Quizqueen

How to report ASB and other crimes, etc. to South Yorkshire police.

www.reportingcrime.uk

Aragog · 12/09/2018 17:21

If it's the story I'm thinking of, there were also questions raised about the sex of this perpetrator, whether this is a woman or a transwoman though

Not seen anyone directly suggest that this was a transwoman, but did see several comments that the woman was 6 foot, and clearly hinting at possibilities.

More recent reports have now named the woman and reiterated that it was an isolated incident, and there was not multiple people involved, either as victims or attacking people.

Justanotherlurker · 12/09/2018 19:54

The chief of SYP has been on various radio programs trying to defend the idea, at no point was it mentioned that it was in relation to any prior incident, if they did they may have not have had the ridicule from across the globe.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 12/09/2018 20:54

The problem with blurring the distinction between what is and isn't (yet) a crime is where you draw the line, if you ignore the clear existing one, and, if pursued, it can inevitably only come down to the mainstreaming of thought crime.

Shoplifting is a crime, so if you go into Tesco on a Saturday afternoon, you could quite legitimately find hundreds of people who, by gathering goods that they haven't yet taken to the till, would not be able to deny that they had 'committed' what could potentially be the first step of a crime.

Somebody has several drinks at the pub at lunchtime and then walks home.... where they have a car on the drive that this person might soon be planning on driving.

No reasonable person wants to see people threatened and insulted for no reason other than their sex, race, orientation whatsoever, but if this is happening so frequently to an alarming level but which is not quite technically illegal, then the law must be amended through due process.

Many have rightly criticised the absurdity of no-platforming at universities, but it sounds like it's being rolled out to the general public - in South Yorkshire at least. Nobody has the right not to be offended, though, but there will always be some people who will take offence at anything - the vast majority of them activists seeking to draw attention to themselves and to make a point, however rational or ridiculous it might be. This could all be genuinely from a good, sincere place, but the place where it all ends up could well be horrifying.

briaroas · 12/09/2018 21:26

Hillsborough

Orgreave

Rotherham grooming gangs

Raided cliff Richard and told the press they were doing it without evidence.

South Yorkshire police are the biggest jokers in England the whole lot want scrapping and starting again.

They constantly post ridiculous things on Facebook and Twitter.

Brahumbug · 12/09/2018 21:33

Actually it is fucking dystopian, anything that somebody else dislikes should be reported? It's like Kim Jong Un's wet dream. Meanwhile a black girl in Manchester receives death threats for criticizing Islam but the police refuse to investigate as "supporters of ISIS gave free speech as well". Yes they do, but not to threaten violence and death.

ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 12/09/2018 22:02

It's about encouraging people to report incidents of possible hate speech - eg transphobic, misogynistic, racist incidents etc, that people may not think of as a 'proper' crime. It's a good thing

What bit are you not getting? Misogyny is NOT on the list.

Batteriesallgone · 12/09/2018 22:45

I think people are thinking the police databases are waaaaay more advanced than they actually are.

They aren’t a supercomputer. Wouldn’t be surprised if their records are a bit of a mess. Certainly can’t see it being all that likely that this will suddenly provide really valuable information about who is a target for the mild version of hate speech (nasty talk?)

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