Secondary school uniform

[Bumbelinadance]

AIBU to say I just kind of feel the focus should be on educating children not their appearance . Ds just started secondary school Who decided a fully buttoned up to the top button shirt and tie was required
...? He hates how that feels all day. Restricting !
He is in a regular state school , yet his uniform was so expensive my parents Kindly stepped in

Surely it up up to the children to decide what path they go down as adults surely ?They can suit it and boot it if they choose to go into a profession where a certain dress code is required .
Comfortable trousers or joggers / skirts if preferred at a reasonable price and a school logo jumper might shift the focus from appearance to learning

I am all for a ban on designer logos and trainers to avoid a haves / have nots scenario
But I really dont get the English uniform obsession

Also I feel hugely amazed by our teachers and support them fully , feel the profession like most of our key workers ( ambulance drivers, nurses , police etc) is underpaid and under appreciated
But I don’t think their job should be to enforce a terribly old fashioned view that an 11 year old should wear a blazer. I also feel very strongly my child should be allowed to express himself as he wishes with his hairstyle and dress PROVIDED HE REMAINS POLITE AND RESPECTFUL TO HIS TEACHERS / ADULTS and meets the schools expectations with academic effort and behaviour
If he wants tramlines in his hair how does that affect whether he gets an a or a d grade ..?

They are there to learn
Achieve their potential
Be told they can be an astronaught if they work hard enough
Not told their appearance defines them

It isn’t really accepted in the workplace so why is it happening in our schools ...?

Myfrei Ds in the USA send their kids to school in clothes they are comfortable in ,so they can focus on learning

School uniform is very important and effective

So how come so many other countries manage to educate children very effectively without school uniform?

Why choose to send you child to a school if you don't want to follow the school dress code?

Because in many, many areas there isn't any realistic choice of school.

"Why choose to send you child to a school if you don't want to follow the school dress code?

Because in many, many areas there isn't any realistic choice of school."

This ^^
All the secondary schools in our local authority have a uniform. Also, some schools are so oversubscribed that getting into them would be impossible.

At 6th Form College with no uniform, there was an unholy bundle of problems to do with students' appearance. These are, obviously, older students than Y7 - Yn. You'd expect them to behave more sensibly and with greater maturity, but remarks and bullying about hair and clothes was rife. Very distressing for those who were targets of the stupidity, and distracting. Yes, even during lessons. Uniform gets rid of most of that, so students can concentrate on learning.

It was never a problem at DD's 6th form. Although it was a school 6th form and they did have a dress code rather than a uniform.

My school had strict uniform up to the age of 18 and bullying was a terrible problem. We nearly had our formal cancelled as it was so bad. Uniform certainly isn’t an instant fix. It’s just the most visible thing, so some heads assume strict uniform = discipline. Not so. And god the stress over the one day a year we could wear non uniform 🙄. So much less drama if we just did it every day, which is what I think every poster on here whose children actually attend non uniform schools have said.

Should say “up to the age of 18 when we finished a levels abs left school”. We didn’t suddenly get to wear non uniform as soon as we turned 18!

When a school is failing, it happens only too often that, after it's forced into becoming an academy, some so-called superhead gets buzzed in and instantly changes the uniform to something grossly impractical and expensive. S/he then insists that staff put loads of resources into enforcing the uniform rather than doing anything useful like teaching. Then two or three years later someone notices that results at the school haven't actually improved because, guess what, uniform has zero effect on learning, the superhead slinks off, and the whole cycle starts again.

I think uniform is a load of nonsense. I went to one secondary school with a stupidly restrictive uniform (we had to have the head's permission to take our jumpers off or undo the top button on our shirts!), and one with a very lax uniform, and then a sixth form with a dress code, but not really a uniform. I can safely say that the most devisive one was the strict uniform one, where if you didn't have the right brand of school shoes, the right style coat from the right shop, the right kind of bag etc, you would be incessantly bullied. At the other 2 schools, no one gave a damn because everyone had slightly different stuff.

My kids are now at school in another EU country and they don't have a uniform. Kids are expected to look decent (i.e. no ripped jeans, jewellery, crazy haircuts etc), but can pretty much wear what they want. And no one cares what the others wear, what brand shoes they have etc. And, thus far, I have not heard or seen of any bullying based on what kids are wearing.

FWIW, my Dad was a secondary school teacher in the UK and reckoned he wasted way too much time on disciplining kids for minor uniform violations because of the school's strict approach to uniform.

I guess there should be no uniform. It would be absolutely enough to make restrictions or requests on some clothes and thats it. Just make sure that kids look smart casual.
I had a uniform for few years at school and it was terrible. It was expensive, ugly, too hot for summer and in winter time, as it was only skirt for girls and lived in the country where in winter its -25, I had to wear winter trousers and that skirt on top to get to school. Ridiculous.

My friend dad was an English teacher - he refused to police uniform infringements.He said his job was to teach and he was a bloody good teacher, very inspiring. He kept his job but no surprises he was never promoted!

I've been threatened with my son being put into isolation or excluded because his trousers are black instead of dark grey. This hasn't been a problem for over a year but I was phoned by a very authoritarian woman who TOLD me to buy new trousers immediately or face the consequences.

I told her no that's not possible as I am disabled and don't have enough income to simply go out and buy more clothes on a whim, when he already has his new uniform.

I took exception to her tone. I am against school uniform. Always have been. And up paying out hundreds on clothes and shoes when he has plenty of perfectly good clothes in his wardrobe. The school say it's to prepare them for life in work. Hilarious they are grooming children for a life in an office when many jobs and careers don't have a call for it. I'm yet to hear of a job or career where a woman has to wear a tie to work. Absolute nonesense.

The same people always end up posting on these threads and they are always unbelievably anti uniform.

Most schools in the UK have a uniform. The majority of parents support that.

Other countries do fine without uniform, but then so do the countries that do, both sets are held up as examples to the UK.

In the end, if you are against school uniform and are vocal about it then this will rub off on your child and they are more likely to be vocal about it too.

What is wrong with a sensible dress code instead of a uniform?

DSis moved from teaching in a school with a strict uniform policy to one with no uniform. She says it's wonderful to be able to concentrate on teaching without spending hours checking and discussing uniform. In practice the children seem to settle into an informal type of uniform consisting of jeans or casual trousers plus a loose shirt or T shirt, and because they're comfortable they seem to learn much more effectively. There's no bullying based on what people are wearing.

I've never met teachers who spend "hours" checking uniform. Most kids just get on with it, as do most teachers.

France and he US must be different than England then because my DC has just stated a non uniform 6th form in England and there is definitely competition between who can wear the shortest skirts, off the shoulder tops, midriffs with piercing, ripped jeans, semi transparent clothes, jeans pulled down to expose the underwear, brands, shorts, strappy clothes, flip flops, hoodies, the occasional onsie ... Its horrendous.

The difference is that the kids have never worn uniform so the question of "what to wear to school" is not something that has been given excessive importance either by teachers or students.

I can well believe that young people whose school dress has been policed, right down to sock colour, for 12 years want to make a fashion statement when they are eventually allowed to wear their own clothes.

In the US and Europe, this isn't the case because for the most part kids have never worn a school uniform.

Personally I'm not "against" school uniform where it's practical for both parents and kids, as is the case for many primary school uniforms. I can see why parents like them. What's shocking to an outsider is where schools insist that clothes that can only be bought from one supplier, often with no oversight regarding potential financial links between school or academy management and the official uniform supplier.

Someone is making a massive amount of money out of this...

"my DC has just stated a non uniform 6th form in England and there is definitely competition between who can wear the shortest skirts, off the shoulder tops, midriffs with piercing, ripped jeans, semi transparent clothes, jeans pulled down to expose the underwear, brands, shorts, strappy clothes, flip flops, hoodies, the occasional onsie ... Its horrendous."

That is why many 6th forms have a dress code. All the above would not have been allowed at DD's school.

Most schools with uniform policies have someone at the gate checking as pupils come in, and also expect class teachers to check and take action appropriately. Over the course of a term or a year it does add up to hours wasted by busy staff who have many better things to do.

"Over the course of a term or a year it does add up to hours wasted by busy staff who have many better things to do."

The same people would be enforcing a dress code, or some other policy.

However when you seek define wasting hours of time, as minutes per day added up over a year or a term, its a bit wishy washy.

A dress code would involve much less time than all the nonsense about checking the precise colour of shoes, whether they're trainers or not, the heel height, the length of skirts, the hairstyle, whether buttons are done up and ties are tight enough etc etc - to say nothing of the schools that insist on children wearing blazers in really hot weather. How can anyone seriously believe that's a sensible use of teachers' time?

Trying to excuse that amount of wasted time by vague statements that it's wishy washy is itself incredibly wishy washy.

I think you are over thinking the amount of time spent checking uniform, mainly to create a strawman argument.

The same people would be enforcing a dress code, or some other policy.

Well, not necessarily. DD's school has no uniform and no dress code and the only 'rules' seem to be no midriff showing, no earrings for PE and no open-toed shoes in science labs. Because all these things are just glaringly obvious and also obviously have quite sensible reasons behind them, there is no enforcement necessary. They mostly wear jeans and T shirts. And because there are so few rules, they don't seem to feel the need to push back against them.

I'm not from UK and went to school without any uniform or dress code. School was a shithole as it is, but uniform would have only made it worse. (other school in town had uniforms, so we knew).

Now I am on a thread in FB where American people are whining about school dress code which says no crop tops and no leggings. Goodness, they should try it over here.

"Now I am on a thread in FB where American people are whining about school dress code which says no crop tops and no leggings."

People will whine whatever rule they are asked to comply with.