Secondary school uniform

[Bumbelinadance]

AIBU to say I just kind of feel the focus should be on educating children not their appearance . Ds just started secondary school Who decided a fully buttoned up to the top button shirt and tie was required
...? He hates how that feels all day. Restricting !
He is in a regular state school , yet his uniform was so expensive my parents Kindly stepped in

Surely it up up to the children to decide what path they go down as adults surely ?They can suit it and boot it if they choose to go into a profession where a certain dress code is required .
Comfortable trousers or joggers / skirts if preferred at a reasonable price and a school logo jumper might shift the focus from appearance to learning

I am all for a ban on designer logos and trainers to avoid a haves / have nots scenario
But I really dont get the English uniform obsession

Also I feel hugely amazed by our teachers and support them fully , feel the profession like most of our key workers ( ambulance drivers, nurses , police etc) is underpaid and under appreciated
But I don’t think their job should be to enforce a terribly old fashioned view that an 11 year old should wear a blazer. I also feel very strongly my child should be allowed to express himself as he wishes with his hairstyle and dress PROVIDED HE REMAINS POLITE AND RESPECTFUL TO HIS TEACHERS / ADULTS and meets the schools expectations with academic effort and behaviour
If he wants tramlines in his hair how does that affect whether he gets an a or a d grade ..?

They are there to learn
Achieve their potential
Be told they can be an astronaught if they work hard enough
Not told their appearance defines them

It isn’t really accepted in the workplace so why is it happening in our schools ...?

Myfrei Ds in the USA send their kids to school in clothes they are comfortable in ,so they can focus on learning

As the parent of a 14 year old girl I am glad she wears uniform.

It stops most of the drama of what to wear on a school morning. Most of it as we still have angst over the 'right' skirt.

On non uniform days we have much planning and preparing of an outfit.

I have neither the time nor the money to make sure she has the 'right' clothes 5 days a week, 38 weeks of the year. No uniform would mean that she would want about 10 different outfits to wear. She wouldn't want to wear cheap or unfashionable clothes. She would have different clothes for summer and winter.

It would cost a fortune. And while I know it's expensive to buy a full uniform in 1 go it's no surprise when September comes. I bought all my uniforms from may to end of june this year as we knew august would be a tight month. The supermarkets do a very good, affordable range these days. The most expensive thing is blazers but dd is in year 10 and only on her second one.

I much prefer uniform for both cost and practical reasons.

There is no drama regarding clothes choices if it's an everyday thing, it's only a big thing on no uniform day in schools with a uniform as it's the children's only chance to wear their own clothes at school so it's really important to them.
It's not important to my dcs as they do it daily so no drama.

And I think quite a few of us are objecting to how strict the uniform policy has become - the lengths school go to, to ensure it is enforced - it all seems like a very petty waste of time and given teachers are already over worked would they not be better using their precious time teaching our kids than enforcing overly strict uniform rules!

There does appear to be little correlation between uniform and what the children do in their uniform. Uniform work wear tends to be for a purpose, protective, hard wearing, and has a reason. School uniform is bizarre. It seems so dated. Ties, but clip on so they can’t get strangled and wear them too short, well yes a clip on tie is ESSENTIAL for learning and paying attention. A polyester blazer that has to be worn at all times, even in summer. There are not many jobs where this applies, except those where it’s for a reason. There is no reason why people need to wear plastic in school and be too hot and sweaty because they are in an English lesson.
It is such a weird out of date concept. And as a parent of 2 in college find they have no problem getting dressed and going out for education now without a uniform. In fact they seem happier, it’s cheaper and they are more focused.

Frouby that may be true for your DD, but it isn't true for other people's DDs. Mine never had any angst about either uniform or non-uniform clothing. Maybe it would be useful to do some work helping to boost your DD's confidence and self-esteem? Being a teenager is hard, but it can be made easier.

My teenager's regular uniform for this year (blazer, shirts, tie, skirt, tights, proper shoes) cost me just under £120.

She might need new shoes later on, and replacement tights, maybe another £60.

So £180 for the year.

If they were in their own clothes every day (not hard wearing, lots and lots of different changes of outfit, shoes, jackets, hoodies, trainers etc) I know that it would cost double, treble, quadruple that. And the kids would be constantly comparing each other, judging each other, bullying for the wrong trainers, the wrong trend, the wrong style. Which IS a distraction to learning at an extortionate cost to my pocket too.

I agree with most of what the OP says. I dont have an issue as much with them wearing uniform it's just the OTT weas schools go about it.

In Primary we had a really snotty letter sent out about the importance of uniforms in working life, really condescending. While reading all that was going through my mind was wanting to say 'well they could end up being teachers'

Now, I onviously dont mean ALL teachers, some are smart, but at DC's school they all looked like they had been dragged through a hedge, and DS's form tutor used to wear tight see through leggings that exposed her fanny lips...gross

I do think uniform is important but i object to having to buy DD's school skirt from one of only two shops 30 miles from my house, at the cost of £25 each! And a blazer - they have to wear their blazers all day every day and only can be removed if the school declare a shirt sleave order which means blazers and ties dont have to be worn.
They have to be worn in lessons too

As a consequence the blazers end up shabby. My dd is very touch sensitive and refuses to wear a jumper/coat with the blazer as it is uncomfortable.

Pe gear from one company that only do online so trying on is not possible and they take months to deliver

This is y9 comprehensive school.

It is very frustrating

I am sorry if children don't agree with the uniform,hair,make up, toilet or any other policies mentioned up thread it is tough.

If they were in their own clothes every day (not hard wearing, lots and lots of different changes of outfit, shoes, jackets, hoodies, trainers etc) I know that it would cost double, treble, quadruple that. And the kids would be constantly comparing each other, judging each other, bullying for the wrong trainers, the wrong trend, the wrong style. Which IS a distraction to learning at an extortionate cost to my pocket too.

This is bollocks. My 15 year old son attends a normal comprehensive school in France. All I've bought him for school this year is a new pair of trainers (from the Nike discount shop: he doesn't care about the brand but is fussy about comfort). His school wear consists of three pairs of jeans/trousers, bought last winter and still fine so no need to replace them, and whatever t-shirt comes out of the drawer first.

If teachers spend to much time worrying about the length of school uniform skirts, then what happens in a non uniform school. Are pupils literally allowed to wear anything they want? Or will teachers still have to spend time enforcing a certain length of skirt, how much bust is showing, how much belly is allowed, etc etc.

Or maybe in non uniform school girls somehow have a brain transplant?

Walking Teenagers tend to rebel when there is something to rebel against.

The only rule at my son's school is no head coverings. There is probably a decency rule somewhere - but I've had kids at French high schools for 14 years in total and as far as I know this has never come up in any of their classes.

In my experience - and my kids have done exchanges at Spanish and German schools so I'm not talking about a single school or a single culture here - European teenagers just dress practically/ comfortably in jeans or sports clothes, and clothing is a total non-issue.

@If they were in their own clothes every day (not hard wearing, lots and lots of different changes of outfit, shoes, jackets, hoodies, trainers etc) I know that it would cost double, treble, quadruple that. And the kids would be constantly comparing each other, judging each other, bullying for the wrong trainers, the wrong trend, the wrong style. Which IS a distraction to learning at an extortionate cost to my pocket too.*

Where do you get this from and base it on? If they just wore their own choice of clothes you would avoid all of this. That’s the whole point. Clothes would just be clothes.
Regarding bullying and shoes etc, firstly I think this is a lot less of an issue than you seem to think but uniform doesn’t stop this anyway. A £3 pair of primark shoes against £115 Dr Martens are still both regulation. Do you think kids don’t pick up on this? But on the whole kids are fairly empathetic these days about clothes it’s the phones and social media you need to worry about. The extensive bullying 2 of mine received were nothing to do with their uniform/clothes items, they were to do with teeth (and braces) weight (too thin) and snap chat. Bullying is rife regardless of uniform.
Uniform makes washing and organising fairly straightforward but it’s often uncomfortable and in schools where there is no uniform you don’t really see the issues that people keep referring to here.

f they were in their own clothes every day (not hard wearing, lots and lots of different changes of outfit, shoes, jackets, hoodies, trainers etc) I know that it would cost double, treble, quadruple that. And the kids would be constantly comparing each other, judging each other, bullying for the wrong trainers, the wrong trend, the wrong style. Which IS a distraction to learning at an extortionate cost to my pocket too.

Same answer as mistigri. This is just bollocks. I have 3 kids in 3 different US schools. None of this stuff you imagine actually happens.

Best thing is I don't waste any of my summer holiday shopping for uniform and the right shoes. We top up anything they've grown out of whenever they need it - mostly from Old Navy and Walmart and Top Shop and Target. Never spent more than $35 on trainers and I have 3 teens.

My dd school doesn't have a uniform, and I had visions of kids spending ages getting ready in the morning, swapping clothes as in first up best dressed etc , and it being hell for house staff, but it seems to be working well.
There are extreme differences in those that have and those that have not, from multi millionaires to sink estate, and yet there doesn't seem to be a problem here, although my dd isn't into designer clothes and labels, and friends tend to follow her dress sense, Lord help them.
I did think it would present huge problems and was one of two parents who objected to begin with.
Most just wear jeans, t shirts, hoodies, leggings, joggers etc. If some are designer you'd have to be looking hard to spot them.

The only branded thing DD1 wears to school is her Dr Martens - and you can't get more hard wearing than that. They were a Christmas present almost 3 years ago. She wears stuff from Sainsburys, H&M and charity shops. I give her £40 a month for all her non-school expenses - she has to buy her friends birthday and Christmas presents out of that, clothes, shoes, music downloads if she wants them, everything. I pay for underwear. It's been soooo much cheaper than uniform!

DD2 is slightly easier because she gets DD1's hand me down blazers and PE kit, but I have had to spend a lot of money on school trousers - she's 5'9'' and needs womens work wear trousers (or I have to buy 'schoolwear' and spend hours taking it in, and I 1) hate sweing and 2) have a full time job. So uniform is a complete PITA.

That’s why they have uniform so the focus is not what they wear

They don’t spend hours deciding and comparing eveyone we’re the same

France and he US must be different than England then because my DC has just stated a non uniform 6th form in England and there is definitely competition between who can wear the shortest skirts, off the shoulder tops, midriffs with piercing, ripped jeans, semi transparent clothes, jeans pulled down to expose the underwear, brands, shorts, strappy clothes, flip flops, hoodies, the occasional onsie ... Its horrendous.

The teachers seem to spend ten times more dealing with non uniform problems than they ever did dealing with uniform in Y7-11. Its not the kids rebelling, its how they dress outside of school. They need to be told what is appropriate to wear inside a school.

Walking

I can see there would be problems in some state schools, the ones round here would have those problems if they abandoned uniform.
kids at dd school don't wear those type of clothes though, so there's never any problem with what they choose.

Walkingdeadfangirl most 6th forms are non uniform. Many of the things you listed are only a problem if the school decides they are a problem.

What is the 'problem' with: shortest skirts, off the shoulder tops, midriffs with piercing, ripped jeans, semi transparent clothes, jeans pulled down to expose the underwear, brands, shorts, strappy clothes, flip flops, hoodies, the occasional onesie?

DD1's 6th form non uniform dress code was very straightforward: dressed, no offensive slogans, no underwear showing. Simple, easy to communicate, easy to follow.

If teachers spend to much time worrying about the length of school uniform skirts, then what happens in a non uniform school. Are pupils literally allowed to wear anything they want? Or will teachers still have to spend time enforcing a certain length of skirt, how much bust is showing, how much belly is allowed, etc etc

DS went to a non-uniform school but I'm not sure if I ever saw a girl in a skirt, let alone a too short skirt. Sports gear was popular with both sexes but girls mostly wore slacks and jumpers, or t-shirts in summer. I was quite shocked when DH was working near London and staying near a girls school with full blazer and tie uniform, how many girls' skirts were not much longer than their blazers. It was something I hadn't seen for years! One ot two of the bustier girls in DS's school did tend to show a bit of cleavage if wearing a V-neck t-shirts, but they weren't wearing anything particularly outrageously, it was just the way they were built.

Gnome exactly the same dress code at DD1's 6th form. It isn't a problem. Most wear jeans and T-shirt, with or without a flannel shirt over when it's colder. One girl rocks up in 50s vintage style dresses. DD1 occasionally goes in full Morticia Addams when she feels like it. Everyone gets on with doing their work.

We don't live in a wealthy town, some of our catchment is among the most deprived in the UK.

I dont get how a shirt and a pair of trousers can be " restrictive " or " not comfy" to me this more suggest that the cut and size is not correct.

I am with @TheDarkPassenger

Totally disagree OP.

Taking pride in your appearance is important as like it or not, others will judge you by it. So it's right children should be told right from wrong at the start.

Then when they leave school they can have all the tramlines/tattooes/jogging bottoms they want. But they will probably find they'll get more job offers if they don't.

Not saying it's right, just saying that is how it is.

*tattoos