Secondary school uniform

[Bumbelinadance]

AIBU to say I just kind of feel the focus should be on educating children not their appearance . Ds just started secondary school Who decided a fully buttoned up to the top button shirt and tie was required
...? He hates how that feels all day. Restricting !
He is in a regular state school , yet his uniform was so expensive my parents Kindly stepped in

Surely it up up to the children to decide what path they go down as adults surely ?They can suit it and boot it if they choose to go into a profession where a certain dress code is required .
Comfortable trousers or joggers / skirts if preferred at a reasonable price and a school logo jumper might shift the focus from appearance to learning

I am all for a ban on designer logos and trainers to avoid a haves / have nots scenario
But I really dont get the English uniform obsession

Also I feel hugely amazed by our teachers and support them fully , feel the profession like most of our key workers ( ambulance drivers, nurses , police etc) is underpaid and under appreciated
But I don’t think their job should be to enforce a terribly old fashioned view that an 11 year old should wear a blazer. I also feel very strongly my child should be allowed to express himself as he wishes with his hairstyle and dress PROVIDED HE REMAINS POLITE AND RESPECTFUL TO HIS TEACHERS / ADULTS and meets the schools expectations with academic effort and behaviour
If he wants tramlines in his hair how does that affect whether he gets an a or a d grade ..?

They are there to learn
Achieve their potential
Be told they can be an astronaught if they work hard enough
Not told their appearance defines them

It isn’t really accepted in the workplace so why is it happening in our schools ...?

Myfrei Ds in the USA send their kids to school in clothes they are comfortable in ,so they can focus on learning

So we teach the child to be more accepting of everyone. Not force them to all look the same there not robots. We should be teaching acceptance and that bullying is unacceptable

If uniform is so important for preparing people for the workplace, why do colleges and universities not have one? Personally I felt more sense of belonging at college and uni that I ever did at school. I got severely bullied at school for being different despite the rigidly enforced uniform.
It's not a levelled- you can still tell who is from a poorer family as they will have a heavier uniform (second hand or too small).
Some other countries don't have school uniform but have uniformed professions, do their young adults struggle with that transition?
Using agree with uniform, but will send DD to school every day in correct uniform.
I work in one those uniformed professions you hold in such high esteem. My uniform is practical and serves a purpose. Not sure you can describe many school uniforms as practical!

Bloody autocorrect - shabbier, not heavier!
I dont, not using!

The workplace has become more and more relaxed over the twenty years I’ve been working.
Less and less men wear ties. In my current (city) office we only put shoes on for big meetings, suits are for interviews only. And the sea of suits I used to see pouring out of bank station is much smaller than years ago, so many firms have relaxed the rules. Not all but many.

I don’t understand why schools have become stricter and stricter as the opposite to what has happened in the workplace.

The most recent changes in school uniforms all seem to be money based, the more items with logos, the more kickbacks for the school.

If the collar is uncomfortable when it's done up, it's probably the wrong size. Poorly fitting clothes are a hindrance, whether uniform or not.

I think school uniform is a good thing. It reduces (not eliminates) the difference in appearance between the haves and the have-nots, it saves arguments about what DC are going to wear in the mornings, it promotes community within the school (irrespective of whether you've ever caved anything).

And of course it diverts the energy of rebellion into something fundametally harmless.

Also, there's the legacy of the late 20th century, when more schools had no uniform. And (for various reasons) they tended to be worse performing and had worse behaviour. It all started to change from about the 1980s onwards, when the 'secret garden' approach to education ended.

I don't think comparisons to societies and schools in other countries are particularly relevant. We don't hanker after the US or European models for health or tax, so there's no reason to think they'd work well in education either.

Though of course if you want really full-on high academic performance and immaculate behaviour, then the comparator wouid be places like Singapore. Whose school uniform standards make Britain's' look like sloppy hippies'

I agree with you. I don’t get the English obsession with school uniform. But I’m foreign.

It’s a crappy argument about preparing for work place. Like many says offices are becoming more relaxed about dress code. DH and I are both in the tech sector. No one wears a suit. Jeans and t shirts are the norm. You can wear shorts in summer. There are even some who wear cycle gear all day.

I'm in favour of a formal school uniform for secondary school.

Whether the children grow into adults who are required to dress in similar attire for work or not doesn't matter IMO, at least they've set the foundations for dressing smartly for whatever job or situation they may need to do so in the future.

I prefer the uniform but i do think the secondary uniform with logo on is overpriced. It is not just what they wear into school the pe kit wasnt cheap either all if which had to be brought from a school supply shop. I cant afford that every year and am hoping some bits last two or three or more years.

Used to hate the top button thing getting enforced when I was at school. If one was thick of neck or one’s parents were waiting ‘til you were bursting out the seams before buying the next size up, it felt horrible.

I liked uniform as a child as I didn't like trendy stuff nor did my parents buy trendy stuff. It meant I felt I fitted in.

If you have uniform it has to be enforced otherwise the kids will soon ignore the rules as much as possible and those whose parents insist on following them, or who don't want to push the rules will stick out and become targets

I’m American. I wore jeans, trainers, and whatever horrible 90s fashions I could find :). I had no trouble putting on smart clothes as the occasion dictated — and isn’t determining that a skill in itself? I went to a top university and suffice it to say my inability to dress properly has not held me back one bit in the professional world.

My DCs go to a private school where my four-year-old has to wear a tie and blazer. Meanwhile the teachers where whatever they want. I don’t get it but my kids don’t mind so it’s not an issue for us.

I do agree that uniform can cut down on issues with designer clothes, etc., but I don’t think it needs to go so far. A nice pair of plain trousers and a school polo shirt with a plain jumper would be perfect IMO.

It takes 14 years of training - school uniform wearing, to learn how to follow a dress code for work in this country, we do a great job -getting it over and done with before they stay work, it’s so tricky!
Now we have a strict uniform policy we no longer have bullies either - feel so lucky, bullies feel happier too! And the schools have more time to focus on teaching.
Kids need to know where they belong - they look at their uniform and they immediately recognise where they are going and have a huge sense of pride and family belonging - they just love that feeling.
Everyone driving past admires how sweet all the kids look in their ties and blazers - Year 7s Especially and we all get to reminisce about our days in ties and blazers and how great they were and how we all wish we could wear a uniform again too!
If the Uniform is really strict and expensive and a bit extra, maybe some wool blazers, we can fool ourselves that our kids don’t really attend a normal state school - their uniform looks as excessive and special just like a private school, they are almost the same (extra points here for an old building)
Learning is secondary to looking the part - branding is where it’s at - the schools know this, get the corporate image sorted and the people will come.., they will follow the shiny!

And I forgot about rule following - without uniform how would kids every understand rules - they are beginning to extend the concept of rules beyond uniform- hopefully by the time they leave school thry’ll Have got it, I am so grateful, we have no rules at home, always thought rules were too hard to impose at home - my kids felt totally lost, And even after school I encourage my kids to keep their magic uniform on - it has so many positives - weekends are a bit tricky though - we seem to freewheel and the kids refuse to wear it.

I used to think school uniforms were a good idea but having spent time in some state schools that are uniform free I have found it really doesn't make a difference the way I assumed it would.

I taught in a non-uniform school in a fairly deprived town and I loved it. The school had a lovely relaxed atmosphere and choice of clothes was no issue because you were wearing them every day, not trying to show off for 2-3 mufti days per year. I'd already got over the security blanket of smart clothes for teaching from supplying in PE and doing cover for other subjects while dressed in tracksuits and trainers. I made the mistake when training of thinking that I should wear suits because that was a popular style, and that physical discomfort came over in my teaching style.

I'm not opposed to uniform, but it must be comfortable and appropriate for learning. The DCs' school have a good range of standard uniform items such as polo shirts, sweatshirts and they look smart, tidy and comfortable. Having a DC with sensory issues over clothes, I am concerned that we may have issues in a few years with secondary uniforms with full trousers, stiff collars, ties and blazers and there are no schools left with a more comfortable uniform.

You can not learn effectively if your clothes are a physical distraction.

Plenty of Other countries don't have school uniform and I wish the UK didn't have it.

Uniform adherence is about compliance.
Following rules.
Without behaviour for compliance schools cannot begin to have behaviour for learning.
Without this students will get crap results.
As regards teachers not wearing uniform, schools do have dress codes for employees.
Minimum 16 years of education to become a teacher. Professionals. At work.
Oh and FYI teachers can not go to the toilet when they want to.

YANBU OP

There is becoming a tendency in schools to focus on minor uniform infringements to distract from the fact they are out of their depth dealing with more serious problems.

It seems to have far more to do with the ‘branding’ and advertising of the academy chain than what what is actually good for children they’re supposed to be caring for.

There should just be a dress code which should include no visible logos/branding.

During my PGCE I went to a girls' school in Birmingham. The uniform was black trousers or skirt (although I didn't see a skirt) and a sweat shirt.

I think there were other options for summer.

The sweatshirt covered the girls' bums.

It looked comfortable, less notable variety in style of trousers and no inspections of trousers to see if they were too tight.

I understand a lot of schools and a lot of parents like uniforms but one thing I think should happen is that the PE kit should be suitable to be worn in summer when it is hot.

There is no evidence other than anecdata that uniform improves academic outcomes Sutton Trust

Non uniform days are often cited as evidence but this misses the point that these are 'different' days so behaviour will be different.

The obsession with super strict uniforms started a number of years ago when a few super heads turned round failing schools by making root and branch changes. The only visible change was uniform which was latched onto by the press. The uniform was one of many changes but seemed to become the number 1 'to do' item for all new heads.

We now seem to be stuck with the idea that a strict uniform will cure all the school ills.

We now seem to be stuck with the idea that a strict uniform will cure all the school ills.

Totally agree with this and it’s at the detriment to children.

I agree with base camp and jynxa. Uniform is great but it's so damn rigid and uncomfortable. At my dc school it's shirt, tie, thick woolen jumper, blazer. All have to be worn everyday during the autumn and winter terms. My ds with asd copes but it's not great for him and if you think have sen means they will bend the rules you are wrong.

And also the idea that uniform breaks down class divide? They just focus on shoes or bag or even pen (Yes my dd experienced this!).

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is Kipper? My reaction to your first post was 'oh, no, I think ds's uniform is quite heavy - maybe I've accidentally got him the shitty one'

Ds, pfb, is starting secondary on Monday, I'm not always this high strung.