Secondary school uniform

[Bumbelinadance]

AIBU to say I just kind of feel the focus should be on educating children not their appearance . Ds just started secondary school Who decided a fully buttoned up to the top button shirt and tie was required
...? He hates how that feels all day. Restricting !
He is in a regular state school , yet his uniform was so expensive my parents Kindly stepped in

Surely it up up to the children to decide what path they go down as adults surely ?They can suit it and boot it if they choose to go into a profession where a certain dress code is required .
Comfortable trousers or joggers / skirts if preferred at a reasonable price and a school logo jumper might shift the focus from appearance to learning

I am all for a ban on designer logos and trainers to avoid a haves / have nots scenario
But I really dont get the English uniform obsession

Also I feel hugely amazed by our teachers and support them fully , feel the profession like most of our key workers ( ambulance drivers, nurses , police etc) is underpaid and under appreciated
But I don’t think their job should be to enforce a terribly old fashioned view that an 11 year old should wear a blazer. I also feel very strongly my child should be allowed to express himself as he wishes with his hairstyle and dress PROVIDED HE REMAINS POLITE AND RESPECTFUL TO HIS TEACHERS / ADULTS and meets the schools expectations with academic effort and behaviour
If he wants tramlines in his hair how does that affect whether he gets an a or a d grade ..?

They are there to learn
Achieve their potential
Be told they can be an astronaught if they work hard enough
Not told their appearance defines them

It isn’t really accepted in the workplace so why is it happening in our schools ...?

Myfrei Ds in the USA send their kids to school in clothes they are comfortable in ,so they can focus on learning

Surely it would be even more of a shock when they start work had they not worn uniform and allowed to wee the very moment they need to?

Haven't rtft.

If you don't like the school's uniform policy then change schools. Simple.

I'm sure they will support your child's move and they can give their place to a child whose parents will support their policies.

@Eliza9917

Go on give me your evaluation as to why you think I am so bothered by what strangers on the internet think. Clearly you think you have figured it out.

Changing school is not an option for everying, and if you only had Hobson's choice for the school in the first place, the idea you could/should have gone elsewhere is pretty cold comfort.

🎧 present for you beksyt you may want to muffle your ears 😉

Aintnothingbutaheartache

What is that supposed to mean?

I haven't read the full thread but wanted to add my thoughts. I think uniform is important but not as important as some schools insist. It also hugely discriminates between genders, for instance the girls as my daughters school have to get logo skirts from the uniform shop, or uniform shop trousers (to stop them opting for skinny leg trousers, or rolling up skirts) however boys just have "black trousers" written on their uniform list. So parents of boys can opt for supermarket school trousers that are no more than a tenner but parents of girls have to pay around £20 for trousers or skirt from the uniform shop. Skorts for PE cost more than shorts and it's not communicated girls could opt to wear shorts if they wish (my older daughter prefers shorts as they are longer, fit better and cover more skin)

My oldest has gone into y10 and my thoughts are turning to post 16 options and looking at the local 6th forms they all have such strict dress codes. Office wear, suits with jackets, no heels, etc. One has a dress down Friday but that states no denim, no slacks, no tee shirts, no hoodies. What do you dress down too??

Another recommended a particular brand of suit that was nearly £100.

Another said boys could have some/all of their hair shaved (no tramlines) however girls could have no part of their head shaved!

As a side note, my husband is middle management for an engineering company earning a very good wage and is required to look smart. Due to the nature of his job a tie wasn't needed but he always wore a shirt and trousers. This week he came home with two polo shirts which are heavily branded with company logo. They want all staff to wear them now. So the argument that it prepares them for the world of work doesn't ring true in a changing environment. A lot of emerging tech firms let employees wear casual clothing. Even teachers wear items that are looked upon as inappropriate for their students to be wearing.

Unfortunately 'normal' schools aren't filled with as many well adjusted teenagers. So a strict uniformity is needed.

And yet all over Europe, in both rich and poor areas, schools function perfectly well without uniform.

Mistigri nails it.

I was at school in the UK in 1978/79 - last year of primary. No uniform. At that point, uniform was relatively unusual. Why did the tide turn? Where is this idea that uniform = transformed schools come from?

I think there is a problem with UK culture - it values conformity, it values style over substance. And that isn't just in schools, it's across the piece. British people and companies need to learn that what you wear and what you look like matters far less than what you achieve. That's a sea change that is going to take time.

More and more testing and increasingly strict uniform standards - is it working?
Are our kids getting a better education?
Has their mental health improved?
Are employers happy that the system has delivered?
Are our kids future ready?

I'm with you, OP. It's becoming increasingly obvious that school uniforms are really just about imposing rules for the sake of it.
If they must have a uniform then it should be generic uniform, available in supermarkets, or of the type that most retail staff wear nowadays, ie, comfortable shoes and trousers and polo tops and sweatshirts/hoodies in the school colours. There's no reason why school children need to look 'smart', as long as they are clean and comfortable. They're at school to learn, not to look a certain way.

it's ironic that schools are getting more and more strict about school uniform while the world of work is becoming more and more relaxed about its dress code.

and as a slight aside - teachers must be among the scruffiest of proffesionals

Isent much anecdotal data suggests children's mental health is worse. Indeed, the demand on CAMHS would tend to agree.

Totally agree.

The top 2 performing secondaries in my area have polo t short and jumper inform and one even allows school shirts for the summer term.

The 2 worst performing schools have the strictest uniform policies and Enforce them through heavy sanctions.

It's blatantly obvious which schools value teaching and learning above 'image'.

The non uniform days thing is a red herring.

The reason many children spend so much time agonising is that they are usually seen in uniform and know they have that one day to make an impression. If they wore normal clothes daily it wouldn't be such a 'thing'

The worse the ofsted the stricter the uniform. Failing schools rebrand, new name, new logo, new uniform. Because of course a new uniform will sort the behaviour and teaching out...
you are not being unreasonable OP. The arguments for uniform are generally out dated and daft.
Uniform does not stop differences being obvious. The shoes/condition of uniform and home purchased items all do this by themselves. My kids school had a great uniform. It was chosen by the pupils, a zipped sweater, polo shirt and black trousers with converse style trainers. Practical, warm and easy to move in. A new head came in and changed the entire uniform, plastic blazers and skirts, ties etc. I’ve no idea why the entire youth population needs to all wear the same outfits? Adults don’t.
They look awful, they are bad quality, all polyester, and unnecessary. Why can’t thdy just wear clothes. I feel the same about Primary. Such horrible clothes.

I agree teachers wear incredibly scruffy clothes for professionals but professionals are catching up with the teachers and dressing down miore and more. The sixth formers always look much smarter but I think the teacher’s dress code has finally grown into the modern day, and the uniform is behind the times.

beksyt was a light hearted attempt at humour as I thought your last comment was going to result in a bit of a bashing .
Certainly no offence intended

I grew up somewhere with no uniform, and believe me, there was definitely agonising over what to wear, judgement, bullying, comments, etc. It didn't become 'not an issue' just because it was an everyday thing! People knew what was worn from day to day, what brands were worn, what the look was, who was in or not, etc. There was definitely a huge social side to it all, and I longed for a uniform.

Some kids must be more sensitive to non uniform - my kids just wear jeans and a t shirt - there’s no drama - no labels in our house either, I’ve always found them a bit obvious and my kids have thankfully agreed with me. Bullying should be dealt with by the school regardless of the so called reason!

Pickle where was that? I remember none of that from my time in Holland. Yes, there were some shitty people who were brand obsessed and tried it on, but they were far from the norm. I went to a very large school (1300 pupils) and honestly, nobody longed for a uniform. We just dealt with the clothes-obsessed people.

There is a role for parents in this - teaching your children about marketing and making money and about the way brand names try to manipulate us should be a part of basic parenting.

I’m just going to throw my hat into the ring here
Uniform is a fucking sensible idea
Polo shirts are smart
Going to the loo is a basic human need/right
Ties and blazers are smart
I’ve run out of points now cos I’ve just had an almighty with my 15yo who has ‘had a bad day’ and wants to know ‘how the eff can I balance work,relaxation and sleep’ ??
What your child wears to school is surely quite insignificant?

Pickle
A uniform wouldn't have helped that, coats/shoes/bags etc?

Yes I'm sure there'd have been issues around coats/shoes/bags too, but at least the basics of clothes would have been less stressful.

I wouldn't have minded rules around coats/shoes/bags too!!

North America. Don't want to say more specifically.

But definitely stress around it all.

And yes, my parents were very much about teaching us about marketing and brands and stuff, and I didn't have most of what was cool for sure. But others did. I was relatively unscathed overall, not bullied exactly, more just left out entirely, but I know that others certainly were. It was also a ritual for certain cliques to choose people with certain clothes, to test them by making them wear certain things, etc. People planned what to wear, liaised with others, people were left out of plans or not, etc. I definitely saw a lot of it go on, even when I wasn't involved (I was pretty uncool generally, being more academic and therefore already nerdy!).

My school was also very large (2000, over 3 years), and quite diverse in terms of wealth, and there was a lot of subtleties about who belonged where, and I doubt the adults ever really knew.

Oh god we still have the popular gang - the group that are the first to have the daft handbags, wear the skirts so short it barely covers their arse, drink and smoke from 13, have boyfriends on Year 7 but we still have strict uniform policies...it doesn’t stop the cool gang but by Year 11 those kids are no longer cool!