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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to hate these things about England vs Italy?

485 replies

ItalianPoster · 06/09/2018 21:56

As an Italian who has spent the last decade in England, I have grown fond of the country, but there are also a few bugbears which totally drive me nuts. Clearly a light-hearted rant, not a profound economic, sociological and anthropological analysis!

  1.  No bidet. I. Will. Never. Get. It. You don’t clean your hands, or a baby’s bottom, with a dry towel, right? You wash the parts! Ideally with water, or at the very least with a wet wipe. Why should an adult’s bottom be any different?
    
  2. No ID cards. I will never get it. You are opposed to ID cards because you don't want a compulsory document but you have made the passport practically compulsory. Don't say you don't need a passport - Windrush proved you wrong. Note that a system of ID cards, like in most of the civilised - and developing - world, would have avoided the Windrush scandal.

  3.  Leasehold. The middle ages are over. Ius primae noctis has been abolished. Why does leasehold persist?
    
  4.  Carpets. I understand them in offices. I understand them in flats with no noise insulation. But in houses? Whether you like them or not is subjective. That they are filthy and almost impossible to clean effectively, compared to wooden or tile floors, is not – that’s a fact.
    
  5.  Separate hot and cold faucets. Why, oh, please someone explain why!
    
  6.  Rodents. No, they are neither normal nor harmless. They carry diseases. In many continental European countries, having rodents is shameful and dealt with swiftly – here they are just accepted passively. Councils don’t seem to conduct periodic exterminations like abroad, and most homeowners seem happy living in properties full of rodent-friendly holes, or just accept with a shrug that, when a house is being refurbished, mice will move to the neighbours!
    
  7.  State schools. Admission by distance, ie by whether you can afford to live close enough. Faith schools funded by the State! It would be outrageous to have hospitals for Christians only but funded by all taxpayers, yet this is what happens with State schools.
    
  8.  School uniforms. Why are you so obsessed with them? While they might have some merit, the obsession with which some schools apply their dress codes is shocking. Every September there are stories about repressed,  control-freak headteachers who check whether pupils are wearing the right shade of grey etc.
    
  9.  Construction standards. Even without bringing up the Greenfell tragedy, construction standards are incredibly low compared to continental Europe. Is there maybe a tax for building stuff straight, not crooked, and for sealing holes? I had never seen crooked angles or ceilings in Italy, Germany or Spain – here they seem to be the norm. And doors? Why do your doors almost never seal the entrance properly? Having an energy performance certificate which looks at whether there any energy-saving light bulbs, but ignores that the front door is all bent and allows lots of draught in, makes no sense at all! Ancient Greece used to build straight stuff - why can't modern England, too?
    

On the plus side:

  1. English mother-in-laws don't seem as overbearing as the Italian ones. Extended families are, in general, less "suffocating". Italian families tend to give more financial support, but that support tends to come with huuuuge strings attached. English kids are brought up to be independent, unlike their Italian cousins.

  2. Work. There's much more of it, and the country is incredibly more open and meritocratic. In Italy, you'll struggle to find non-white non-Italians who have progressed in their career and are heading teams of white Italians. Not here. Foreigners for very high-profile jobs (Carney)? Forget it.

  3. There is no concept of "concorso", these huge, theoretical exams which are needed to hire people in the civil service, and which, idiotically, totally disregard soft skills. A job "concorso" typically involves thousands of applicants locked in a huge gym answering mostly irrelevant and theoretical written questions.

  4. The immigration bureaucracy is shameful (Windrush), but, in general, English bureaucracy is miles ahead the Italian one (I know, it doesn't take much!). Receiving a new driving licence, for free, in a few days, or receiving a tax refund 3 days after filing your tax return are unthinkable and cause the envy of our friends in Italy.

  5. Green spaces and kids' activities. At least in London, there are so many, mostly well-kept gardens, parks, green spaces and play grounds; the difference with the large Italian cities is shocking.

  6. Free motorways. Privatised railways have been an utter failure (Govia/Southern Fail), but at least you didn't privatise the motorways and gave too good a deal to a bunch of well-connected local entrepreneurs like we did (by the way, the fact they are the key investors in the Italian motorways is one reason why I never buy Benetton).

OP posts:
TomPinch · 08/09/2018 01:23

I've never faced such levels of hatred and nastiness as when I was in England.

Truly nasty people.

Careful now. We might invade you.

animaginativeusername · 08/09/2018 07:00

@hadenough it works both ways, op wasn't so nice in the first place, she came across as aggressive. She asked question if she was being unreasonable, and was given evidence of her hypocrisy. It's not her opinion that's the issue but doesn't see how biased she is

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/09/2018 08:14

I don’t think anyone like their country being slagged off TBH 😐

But the thread has value for
folk who have a foot in both camps

So for me it’s an interesting insight

For someone without massive ties to Itaty it reads like criticism

SoyDora · 08/09/2018 08:19

Truly nasty people

You obviously never met me then, I’m lovely Wink.
I’ve lived in multiple countries and have met awful people and lovely people in all of them.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/09/2018 08:21

Actually having a few weeks of Aibu - I was semi suprised how it kicks off in here Grin

I don’t think the Italians are as argumentative in social media as us

They just do it face to face (loudly )

CharltonLido73 · 08/09/2018 08:38

I have a long-standing relationship with Italy, having studied Italian at degree level and having lived and worked there.

However, I was reflecting the other day that the only experiences of sexual harassment I have ever encountered took place in Italy.

bumblingbovine49 · 08/09/2018 08:38

Blimey, I can really see how touchy we are as a natioin. The OP posted observations about Italy and about the UK. She didn't "slag off" the Uk and praise ITALY she listed some things that irritate/baffle her about BOTH countries.
As to people calling her goady because she mentioned differences in regards to slapping/hitting children. This is viewed differently in Italy.

My Italian nephew's teacher once asked my BIL if he ever gave his son a good slap as his behaviour sometimes warranted it and they were often tempted to themselves as it might do him some good. BIL, who never hit his children just found this vaguely amusing, although he was also embarrassed by DN behaviour (which was mostly silliness and not paying attention rather than anything more serious). Imagine that conversation in an English school even 10 years ago?

This is the context in which to view that adult slapping a child. I do not condone it at all and you should definitely report it if an adult repeatedly hitting/abusing a child but to point out that you are unlikely to be taken seriously if it was what Italians consider 'normal disciplining' is not goady, it is a sensible warning

bumblingbovine49 · 08/09/2018 08:47

I think someone earlier asked how Ituans jeep their homes cosy and warm in the winter They keep them warm by having the hearing on and not having many draughts. The homes are not very cosy though ,(which is different from warm,) particularly in winter. This mainly why no self respecting Italian walks around the house without slippers on at all times, otherwise your feet freeze on the tile floors

HeadacheAgainGrrrrrr · 08/09/2018 08:47

Well if England grates on you so much OP, there are many cheap flights back to Italy you could take! I'd suggest you catch one ...

SoyDora · 08/09/2018 08:52

We lived in Madrid where all the floors were tiled, however in the winter the temperature regularly went down to -6 degrees. Luckily DH’s company paid all our bills as otherwise the heating bills would have bankrupted us!

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 08/09/2018 08:55

if "England" is so nasty, here's a plan, don't live here..?

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 08/09/2018 08:56

If you want a map with directions to the airport, PM me.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/09/2018 09:36

Well if England grates on you so much OP, there are many cheap flights back to Italy you could take! I'd suggest you catch one ...

Oh my days ! It’s BREXIT a clock

She also slagged off italy
Did you notice !?

Anyway waste of my finger muscles really

ThenCameTheFools · 08/09/2018 09:38

bumblingbovine- you're rather teaching your grandmother to suck eggs as I am the one who called her goady, and I've lived here in Italy for 25 years.
That people (and not just parents, teachers also) think slapping children is OK, is not a cultural difference to be observed dispassionately like some anthropologist. Take a look at the murder rates within families. Accepting low-level violence within a family (thumping a child) leads to that child thumping others, leads to that child growing up thinking he can thump his wife, leads to that child growing up thinking that her husband is going to thump her because it's what they do.

Davros · 08/09/2018 09:38

I remember the days when we could drink water from the tap but you absolutely couldn't in some other countries. I know now that's what accounts for our historic separate taps, although you don't see them much now. It was so exotic when my dad ordered "gassy water" on holiday, we never had bottled water at home because we didn't need it. That was certainly in France and Spain, we didn't go to Italy but I'd be surprised if it was different. If you drank the tap water or brushed your teeth in it you would be ILL. Sadly bottled water made it to our shores but at last is being discredited as a scam because we don't need it!

ThenCameTheFools · 08/09/2018 09:47

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/2036163-I-would-be-a-bad-mum-if-I-still-lived-in-Germany-Or-differences-in-traditions-and-guidelines

This was quite a nice (and enlightening) thread from some years ago, that made it into Classics about cultural differences in parenting from many countries.

Pre-Brexit, of course, so you didn't get Brits saying "go home" and non-Brits-living-in-Britain saying how shit Britain is, and how vile Brits are. Wink

Togaandsandals · 08/09/2018 14:10

Of course this thread has made the English defensive. In their little world they're always right and the best country in the world. Disagree with them and they play the victim. I've never faced such levels of hatred and nastiness as when I was in England. Truly nasty people.

@hadenough, I am a fierce remainer, one of my parents is from mainland Europe, I love Europe, including Italy. The UK has its faults, especially weather! And Brexit makes me weep. However, I still found the tone of the OP’s post rude, even if she did include a few things she liked about the UK. Discussing cultural differences is interesting but the manner OP did it I found unpleasant. I appreciate not everyone did.

Finally, I am sorry if Brexit has effected you, terrible decision.

As someone else saId, each country has its nice people and not so nice.

CharltonLido73 · 08/09/2018 17:07

That was certainly in France and Spain, we didn't go to Italy but I'd be surprised if it was different. If you drank the tap water or brushed your teeth in it you would be ILL.

When I was a student I spent a year in Florence (1980) and you certainly could not drink the tap water then. It came out brown. I was told that this was because the water source had been polluted during severe flooding in the 1960s. I don't know if this was the real reason, but the family I lived with had bottled water delivered on a regular basis, just like we have milkmen in the UK.

hottotrotsky · 08/09/2018 22:53

UrsulaPandress call the police on 113. If you're staying in a hotel speak to the management and ask whether they can intervene to translate.

I'm a longstanding Brit in Italy and although the country is infuriating, exasperating, perplexing and mind boggling I've never felt as alive as I do here. Blighty is dull in comparison. This morning I was running in the hills revelling in the scenery, smells and sweet september sunshine when I was very nearly mown down by a speeding fuckwit. Sums it up really. Almost as lethal as the mother in laws. They are dysfunctional monsters.

BMW6 · 09/09/2018 00:16

It is always wise, when a guest in someone's home, not to criticise the habits and decor of the homeowner. No matter how "lighthearted" your intention you will just sound like a boorish ill-mannered fool.

If wisdom's ways you wisely seek
Five things observe with care.
Of whom you speak
To whom you speak
And how, and when, and where.

minipie · 09/09/2018 00:28

I’m with you on 3 and 7 OP.

The others - hmm.

Aspenfrost · 09/09/2018 00:35

Bidets. Urgh

Aspenfrost · 09/09/2018 00:36

Scooters are a pestilence.

Aspenfrost · 09/09/2018 00:37

Mosquitoes in Venice. Omg

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 09/09/2018 00:48

I love Italy

If course some things are better there than here one thing that is certainly not is the tv shows

Oh my Italian TV is so awfu it’s funny well for about 30 minutes

It’s like bad ITV 80’s Saturday evening entertainment shows

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