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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to hate these things about England vs Italy?

485 replies

ItalianPoster · 06/09/2018 21:56

As an Italian who has spent the last decade in England, I have grown fond of the country, but there are also a few bugbears which totally drive me nuts. Clearly a light-hearted rant, not a profound economic, sociological and anthropological analysis!

  1.  No bidet. I. Will. Never. Get. It. You don’t clean your hands, or a baby’s bottom, with a dry towel, right? You wash the parts! Ideally with water, or at the very least with a wet wipe. Why should an adult’s bottom be any different?
    
  2. No ID cards. I will never get it. You are opposed to ID cards because you don't want a compulsory document but you have made the passport practically compulsory. Don't say you don't need a passport - Windrush proved you wrong. Note that a system of ID cards, like in most of the civilised - and developing - world, would have avoided the Windrush scandal.

  3.  Leasehold. The middle ages are over. Ius primae noctis has been abolished. Why does leasehold persist?
    
  4.  Carpets. I understand them in offices. I understand them in flats with no noise insulation. But in houses? Whether you like them or not is subjective. That they are filthy and almost impossible to clean effectively, compared to wooden or tile floors, is not – that’s a fact.
    
  5.  Separate hot and cold faucets. Why, oh, please someone explain why!
    
  6.  Rodents. No, they are neither normal nor harmless. They carry diseases. In many continental European countries, having rodents is shameful and dealt with swiftly – here they are just accepted passively. Councils don’t seem to conduct periodic exterminations like abroad, and most homeowners seem happy living in properties full of rodent-friendly holes, or just accept with a shrug that, when a house is being refurbished, mice will move to the neighbours!
    
  7.  State schools. Admission by distance, ie by whether you can afford to live close enough. Faith schools funded by the State! It would be outrageous to have hospitals for Christians only but funded by all taxpayers, yet this is what happens with State schools.
    
  8.  School uniforms. Why are you so obsessed with them? While they might have some merit, the obsession with which some schools apply their dress codes is shocking. Every September there are stories about repressed,  control-freak headteachers who check whether pupils are wearing the right shade of grey etc.
    
  9.  Construction standards. Even without bringing up the Greenfell tragedy, construction standards are incredibly low compared to continental Europe. Is there maybe a tax for building stuff straight, not crooked, and for sealing holes? I had never seen crooked angles or ceilings in Italy, Germany or Spain – here they seem to be the norm. And doors? Why do your doors almost never seal the entrance properly? Having an energy performance certificate which looks at whether there any energy-saving light bulbs, but ignores that the front door is all bent and allows lots of draught in, makes no sense at all! Ancient Greece used to build straight stuff - why can't modern England, too?
    

On the plus side:

  1. English mother-in-laws don't seem as overbearing as the Italian ones. Extended families are, in general, less "suffocating". Italian families tend to give more financial support, but that support tends to come with huuuuge strings attached. English kids are brought up to be independent, unlike their Italian cousins.

  2. Work. There's much more of it, and the country is incredibly more open and meritocratic. In Italy, you'll struggle to find non-white non-Italians who have progressed in their career and are heading teams of white Italians. Not here. Foreigners for very high-profile jobs (Carney)? Forget it.

  3. There is no concept of "concorso", these huge, theoretical exams which are needed to hire people in the civil service, and which, idiotically, totally disregard soft skills. A job "concorso" typically involves thousands of applicants locked in a huge gym answering mostly irrelevant and theoretical written questions.

  4. The immigration bureaucracy is shameful (Windrush), but, in general, English bureaucracy is miles ahead the Italian one (I know, it doesn't take much!). Receiving a new driving licence, for free, in a few days, or receiving a tax refund 3 days after filing your tax return are unthinkable and cause the envy of our friends in Italy.

  5. Green spaces and kids' activities. At least in London, there are so many, mostly well-kept gardens, parks, green spaces and play grounds; the difference with the large Italian cities is shocking.

  6. Free motorways. Privatised railways have been an utter failure (Govia/Southern Fail), but at least you didn't privatise the motorways and gave too good a deal to a bunch of well-connected local entrepreneurs like we did (by the way, the fact they are the key investors in the Italian motorways is one reason why I never buy Benetton).

OP posts:
Iscreamforbenandjerrys · 07/09/2018 19:11

Plus mother in law and bisnonna only ever used their bidets for soaking clothes and washing feet.

Togaandsandals · 07/09/2018 19:29

One of my parents is from another European country so I am aware of cultural differences. However, if I was living in another country I wouldn’t go onto a forum in that country and list all the problems with the country, even if at the end I acknowledge some aspects that I think are good. It probably is my cultural upbringing but I find it rude.

Togaandsandals · 07/09/2018 19:31

To add to the above, I may discuss differences amongst close friends but not on a forum.

animaginativeusername · 07/09/2018 19:39

Op yes YABU

mikado1 · 07/09/2018 19:46

You can't compare your hands to your bum?! Obviously you're not going to handle food or anything if your hands weren't washed after the toilet but generally people shower daily and wipe properly so it's really not so bad. My ds is learning to wipe now and when I check he looks completely clean, obviously not if he was to touch anything of any importance but in his pants, fine.

Otherwise I adore Italy!

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 07/09/2018 20:10

Meh I took no offence

Anyone with any experience of living in Italy and the UK completely got it

Your English is great and ignore the moaners

Like skim past ! Testa di cazzi tutti

Togaandsandals · 07/09/2018 20:17

Totally understand not everyone would take offence. It’s just not what I would do.

ThenCameTheFools · 07/09/2018 20:17

I have lived in Italy for 25 years and I don't "get it". I also object to posters calling other posters dickheads and thinking that because they're saying it in furrin' they win the internet.

sta t ctt.

SoyDora · 07/09/2018 20:19

I’ve lived in Italy and the UK and didn’t ‘get it’ to be honest. Mainly because I’ve never had a problem with rodents anywhere in the UK but I did in Milan! And no one would do about it because apparently it was inevitable because of the way our apartment was built! Confused

thereareflowersinmygarden · 07/09/2018 20:31

@RedDogsBeg

You are missing a fundamental English, characteristic; a sense of humour!

Some countries do some things better, some do others better.

"Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the
mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it's all organised by the
Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the
lover's Swiss, the police German and it's all organised by the Italians."

harvester77 · 07/09/2018 20:42

Haha sorry OP well done you hit a nerve with the Bidet too lol. As for mother in laws as if sole English ones are not horrible Narcs who dont even bother with theei kids or grand kids lets be honest it's not a nationality thing with mother in laws! Bidet is right though it's pure disgusting no wonder so many cases of sickness bugs in this country. Vile.

Racecardriver · 07/09/2018 20:47

Mine says Australia where the example you provided says NK. Mine is really recent though so maybe there's been a change? Just check certificates, it's place of birth rather than nationality so I stand corrected on that front. It does include my occupation for some reason though, you would have thought that nationally would be more usefulHmm.

harvester77 · 07/09/2018 20:57

Anyway every culture and country has their own way and beauty. We are all the same

iamyourequal · 07/09/2018 21:11

Yabu, a bit! I think your construction standards claim is laughable and I think bidets are gruesome. We need carpets because it’s cold! Hoovering, carpet shampooing and taking shoes off indoors helps keep them clean enough.

ID cards would be a great idea though. And you could have had an easy win of points adding your lovely Italian food to the list!

TomPinch · 07/09/2018 22:01

Hi OP: here's a song you'll like:

PJ Harvey - The Last Living Rose

"Goddamn Europeans!
Take me back to beautiful England
And the grey, damp filthiness of ages,
And battered books and
Fog rolling down behind the mountains,
On the graveyards, and dead sea-captains.
Let me walk through the stinking alleys
To the music of drunken beatings,
Past the Thames River, glistening like gold
Hastily sold for nothing.
Let me watch night fall on the river,
The moon rise up and turn to silver,
The sky move,
The ocean shimmer,
The hedge shake,
The last living rose, quiver."

fridaseyebrows · 07/09/2018 22:19

I find the comments implying better hygiene in Italy quite odd - public toilets in Italy are disgusting and best avoided. Even in hospitals - I spent a lot of time in an Italian hospital this morning and the toilets didn’t have any toilet paper or soap let alone hand sanitizer (or a bidet for that matter!).

And as for the concept of “la privacy” - a friend rang the hospital to find out my test results and was told everything in detail before I had been told anything! Disgraceful. (More disgraceful that my Italian family accepted this as normal!).

Hayles88 · 07/09/2018 22:24

Really glad my Italian colleagues aren't such wankers.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 07/09/2018 22:32

She said what she liked and what she disliked .

It’s quite interesting for me as can see both sides and I always like to discuss the funny ways of italy versus the UK

Even though I don’t nevessarily agree - so what ?

Then someone said ‘go back ‘

That’s who I called a dickhead

I don’t like Brexit minded comments like that

recluse · 07/09/2018 22:42

No, you said “ignore the moaners”, and that they are all dickheads - “tutti”.

Anyway, I have one parent from each country, and have lived in both, and I also found the tone and emphasis of the OP quite rude, and didn’t “get it”.

It’s one thing discussing differences, but this really wasn’t that.

It struck me that the OP seems annoyed with this country in general, as is her right, and is feeling a little homesick. Maybe I am wrong.

The OP did feel like a gratuitous, pointless attack however.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 07/09/2018 22:45

She has probably
Spent the summer there and has post holiday blues

Just baffled why
People got quite so offended

She slagged off italy too !

MuddlingMackem · 07/09/2018 22:45

londonista Fri 07-Sep-18 10:42:34

I do wonder what possesses someone to put carpet in a bathroom, but I've seen it so many times, there must be a reason people like it.

I don't do bare feet unless on carpet and, as the bathroom is the only place other than the bedroom I regularly walk in in bare feet, I need carpet. Grin

TomPinch · 07/09/2018 22:52

I'm am emigrant to NZ. Would I engage a bunch of random Kiwis with a long list of things I disliked about their country?

No, not unless I wanted to be called correctly called a "whinging Pom" and be furnished with an excuse to have a further moan elsewhere about Kiwis' xenophobia.

Or if I wanted to wind them up innocent face.

As you were OP............

RedDogsBeg · 07/09/2018 23:07

Nowt wrong with my sense of humour thereareflowers I enjoyed your ditty, it was, unlike the OP's efforts, lighthearted.

hadenough · 08/09/2018 00:19

Of course this thread has made the English defensive.

In their little world they're always right and the best country in the world. Disagree with them and they play the victim. I've never faced such levels of hatred and nastiness as when I was in England.

Truly nasty people.

ButchyRestingFace · 08/09/2018 00:50

Of course this thread has made the English defensive

Hasn't made the Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish defensive though. Grin

Apparently OP doesn't give a rat's arse that the rest of the UK don't do bidets either so no fucks given from this end (pun intended).