Why do parents of year 7 children do this?

[GuavaPalava]

So my DS has started secondary school this week. Prior to starting, we of course had parents evening, literature, uniform rules - it was made very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't

I was added to a 'new starters in year 7' FB group for my area a few months back and it's been used to ask the usual questions you may expect - apart from this week. It's all kicked off with the following ..

A parent in a fury as in day 1 she received a call saying her son's hair was not acceptable. Cue obligatory pic and he's got a half shaved head and tramlines

Another parent going mad as he DD had pink hair over the summer which she 'bleached out apart from the back' - she can't believe she's been told it needs to be sorted

And another moaning because she received a call about her DD wearing make up

All saying what you'd expect - it doesn't have any bearing on their ability to learn. And yeah, they're right - I get that

But why would you do this? You know the guidelines as a parent and they're very clear . AIBU to say that, knowing these rules, it's your child you immediately single out in a new school by sending him/her in with tram lines hair, pink hair and make up?

I did complain about the thick woollen tights. I was told they were for *safety reasons and only a few have parents have voiced an issue about it, so suck it up or move her to a different school.

Fine, except all local secondary's now have this stupid rule, so where do I move her to?

• translates to; We can't be bothered to police our ridiculous skirt length policy because we know only our uniform shop sells skirts that are 26" inches long, black, A-line and pleated with no decoration around the waist, and we're aware parent's don't want to pay £18 for a polyester skirt and will send them in Tesco ones that don't quite meet our standards, and we daren't actually come out and demand parent's buy our skirts because there was uproar when tried that with outdoor coats last year, so instead of rescinding that rule to a more sensible one we're just gonna make everyone wear tights and plus it's easier than telling the boys to stop peering up girl's skirts.

Look at the schools that are leading the world's attainment statistics - they don't have uniforms.
Yes, but that's not because of uniform decisions.

In Scandinavia, teaching is a masters level profession, well paid, well respected, there's a totally different philosophy of education.
Go to South Asia and you'll find class sizes of 60+, students going to night schools and tutors until 10pm.
Actually the 2 systems there are opposite ends of the spectrum pedagogically in many respects.

What both systems have is a respect for teachers and the fact that teachers are there to teach.
That doesn't exist in significant sections of the UK where school is viewed by many as convenient childcare, where teachers shouldn't challenge their child, where their child doesn't have to follow rules, where it's perfectly fine to have random days off, where it's fine to accept your child doing no work and then blame the teacher if they don't do well. Homework, maybe do it, maybe not. Rely on intetvention at y11 to catch up years of poor attitude / catch up for learning missed because entitled disruptive studnets have managed to interrupt learning repeatedly.

(Personally don't mind uniform or non uniform and I don't get why people get so wound up about it)

I think they are doing their child no favours by encouraging them to have a negative attitude to their teachers and to rebel against them in their first week. It'll come back to bite them

Some people just don't like being told what they ( or their kids ) can and cannot do. A bit thick and angry. DM said face etc.

If parents at our school started/used a FB page slagging off the school for any reason they would find themselves looking for alternative schools for their kids pretty quick. Parents and pupils all have to agree to the social media policy on enrolment. I am happy with that personally, I could have chosen a different school (a whole other topic I know).

Look at the schools that are leading the world's attainment statistics - they don't have uniforms.

Yes, but that's not because of uniform decisions.

I*n Scandinavia, teaching is a masters level profession, well paid, well respected, there's a totally different philosophy of education.
Go to South Asia and you'll find class sizes of 60+, students going to night schools and tutors until 10pm.
Actually the 2 systems there are opposite ends of the spectrum pedagogically in many respects.

What both systems have is a respect for teachers and the fact that teachers are there to teach.
That doesn't exist in significant sections of the UK where school is viewed by many as convenient childcare, where teachers shouldn't challenge their child, where their child doesn't have to follow rules, where it's perfectly fine to have random days off, where it's fine to accept your child doing no work and then blame the teacher if they don't do well. Homework, maybe do it, maybe not. Rely on intetvention at y11 to catch up years of poor attitude / catch up for learning missed because entitled disruptive studnets have managed to interrupt learning repeatedly.

(Personally don't mind uniform or non uniform and I don't get why people get so wound up about it)*

This, absolutely.

My school have previously worked with teachers from Shanghai and the differences are incredible. Teachers there are very highly respected and very rarely questioned on their professional judgement.

I think, as others have stated, it is more the attitude of the parents, oneupmanship. They don't want their child to conform and be the same, equal, to other children. Uniform is supposed to be an equaliser. Even most non uniform schools in other countries have rules, quite a lot of rules if you look, thus creating a type of uniform. Those types of parents want to give the child something that makes them 'better/unique', whether its non conforming (usually fashionable, expensive brand) shoes or silly hairstyles.

Oh of course, Maisy - I'm not saying that the difference is solely down to uniform. Just that they aren't bothered about it as they have more important things to consider, like actual education.

I've been to Finland, Reggio Emilia, Pakistan and Uganda to observe teaching. The respect both children and wider communities have for teachers is fantastic. It's the complete opposite here, which is very sad. It's as though many parents are gunning for a fight. Not a conductive environment for education.

I agree with the PP who said that respect for education and for teachers makes a big difference but that respect needs to come from the Government. It's successive fucking idiots taking over the DfE and imposing their mad, spiteful, authoritarian, utterly ignorant ideas on the education system that's the problem. The bullshit about 'smart' uniforms (as expensive, impractical, outdated as possible) is not about giving children 'pride in themselves and their school' in the least. The excessive testing of very small children does far more harm than good.
A quality education teaches you to open your mind, to question things, to do your research, to explore. What seems to be required (by those who run the UK and by too many fucking muppets whining about other people being 'entitled') is an 'education' that is all about obedience and conformity and passivity - and constant anxiety that you are not measuring up to some arbitrary standard. And contemporary uniform policies generally back this up.

When my niece went to an induction day for her DS's new school, the headmaster stood up and listed various rules of the school, saying that individually the rules may seem small, but taken as a collective has a major influence over the attitude of students, their learning and attitude to others. He stated they were the rules, they would be adhered to, and if the parents didn't like it, then that school was obviously not the right one for their child.

Personally I am not sure how having a shaved head and tramlines makes you a bad person such that you can't be taught in school... Some rules are stupid.

The 'broken windows' method of policing (focus on the small stuff to prevent big stuff) is largely discredited. Focusing on pointless things like hair cuts doesn't create better behavior in school..

I think schools would have more respect if both parents and students were able to understand the rules and finance them.

My main issues with uniforms are;

1. I can't afford them.

2. They're sexist and outdated

3. They keep changing

4. They're vague yet prescriptive at the same time (a sensible hair cut, for example, could mean one thing to one person and something else to another)

5. I don't understand the point of them and can't sensibly answer all the "but why" questions kids have - but why can't I have red hair? But why do the school say I can't? But why isn't it professional? Look, that Police Lady has red hair and she's professional and anyway, I don't want a job, I want to die. She accepted the answer to but why can't have my nostril pierced much easier.

6. I can't afford it

7. I can't afford it

8. I can can't afford it

9. Did I mention I can't afford it?

I would have much more respect for a school which could garner respect from and control children without the need for expensive, yet cheaply made polyester blazers and vague nonsense rules on hairstyles

NB: Both my kids have and wear the required the uniform.

Frequency - As to your question about why your DDs appearance is so important to her, it may well be because that's the only area of her life she has any control over. She can't decide where she lives, or how she lives. She can't control how she spends her time (if it's not this school, it's another one), she can't express herself via any other area of her life, expect how she looks.

IME, how you look becomes less important to people who have more control over everything else. She may well not give a shit about her appearence in 20 years time.

But I agree, how you teach your children to approach rules they don't like is important to how successful they will be as adults.

teach them to change the rules, or accept yes, they are silly but you need to comply with X to get Y which is desirable, is a good life lesson. Not complying with X and still expecting Y will set you up for disappointment. Trying to change X is the best long term option.

Teaching your DCs to think long term is important - a skill many of these parents seem to lack themselves!

"The Police, for example, I've seen policewomen with burgundy hair. I'm not sure on fashion colours but they're certainly allowed a lot more control over their hair colour than my daughter is. They can also wear a coat inside their workplace if they're cold or take their jacket off if they're warm. Police women don't have to wear thick, woollen tights in all weathers.

Unless you know of anywhere that dictates what coat you can wear on your way to work, demands you take it off the second you enter the school gates but also demands you leave your thick, synthetic blazer and woollen tights on in summer, restricts your choice of hair colour to only a few shades, restricts your haircut, dictates what colour bag you have and demands you buy your own uniform, from their choice of supplier no matter if you can't afford it?"

Firstly I completely agree about the price of uniform and the fact it has to be from an expensive school shop. It's wrong to expect parents to pay those prices!

With the uniform in work though, my uniform is not allowed to be worn to work or home again, we must change when at work. Coats are not allowed to be worn and full uniform is to be worn at all times. So in summer we can be absolutely boiling hot but still have to wear long sleeves and full length trousers and in summer we aren't allowed to wear coats, only warm clothing under our uniform and some winters it's cold enough in the mornings to see your own breath at work. We have to comply though for our own safety and hygiene reasons.

So some jobs are strict on uniform, even in extreme temperatures.

*in winter we can't wear coats in work not summer obviously!

I bet the spelling and grammar are a wonder to behold on this FB group

The fact is that children with these sorts of parents [rolls eyes and sighs heavily] are very unlikely to turn into exemplary young scholars whether they're wearing the regulation school shoes or not. I don't feel it would actually make much material difference to their educational experience.

@PenelopeShitStop well, it took me a few seconds to work out what 'iceolasion' was

The worse thing I came across whilst caring for the younger brother was a parent phoning their older Childs uni to find out when some work needed handing in.consequently he never finished his course and wisely the younger child didn't go.some parents never let go

Just here to throw flowers @MaisiePops for her post, bravo!

I’m a teacher. I always thought uniform was about making sure everyone is dressed the same and there’s no teasing or kids feeling left out, or desperate for the latest craze in hair or shoes or jeans etc that puts undue pressure on their parents to spend more money.
I guess that’s not worked as well as uniform is expensive, especially some of the shoes the kids ask for, but I think it’s a noble goal.

Agree completely #professormoody. I run an education centre for 16+ many of which have not been able to cope in school and whilst this is for a variety of reasons one which comes up often is that they couldn’t cope with the silly rules. Not being able to cope with the tie and top button done up because of sensory issues, or not fitting in because of not having the right stuff - sometimes there are very simple reasons that someone becomes disconnected from their education. As long as it’s safe our students can wear what they like and they flourish and find their own identities.
I can also remember a time when I was still teaching in secondary when it was a really hot summers day in July, my classroom had windows on two sides and the heating was stuck on. I told my students to take their blazers off - in fact that they could take whatever they wanted off as long as I didn’t see bare chests! My then prat of a deputy head came in and told me that they all had to put their blazers etc back on. It was over 30 degrees Celsius in that classroom and there was no way anyone would learn anything if they were overheated in excess clothing. Cue big row. Thankfully my then head agreed with me! Some things are just not worth worrying about or taking issue with. The focus should be on their learning and if they feel comfortable and respected they can learn. Simples.

I started to post something about preparing for the world of work etc, but one thing that really bugs me is NON-uniform days. In response to a pp - I can't afford the clothes that my dcs have craved for mufti days. Apparently, they can't wear the same thing they wore last time or people will think we're poor and get laughed at. Just so the school can raise money for the sports hall or whatever.

WhatsApp/fb groups are useful, homework advice, discussions re events etc - I actually want to make friends with my child’s tutor group....however rules are rules, some parents are completely stupid or think they are above the rules. Uniform is about conforming and all ‘trying’ to be the same. I’m all for this. As an army wife, whose husband regularly reminds me uniform is important in the forces, it signifies team, conforming and respect, in that everyone is the same with the same objective. I don’t see harm in rules and find it frustrating when parents think it’s a good idea to bleach hair when the uniform policy is there is black and white to refer to. Are they parenting or being bullied by their kids.