Why do parents of year 7 children do this?

[GuavaPalava]

So my DS has started secondary school this week. Prior to starting, we of course had parents evening, literature, uniform rules - it was made very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't

I was added to a 'new starters in year 7' FB group for my area a few months back and it's been used to ask the usual questions you may expect - apart from this week. It's all kicked off with the following ..

A parent in a fury as in day 1 she received a call saying her son's hair was not acceptable. Cue obligatory pic and he's got a half shaved head and tramlines

Another parent going mad as he DD had pink hair over the summer which she 'bleached out apart from the back' - she can't believe she's been told it needs to be sorted

And another moaning because she received a call about her DD wearing make up

All saying what you'd expect - it doesn't have any bearing on their ability to learn. And yeah, they're right - I get that

But why would you do this? You know the guidelines as a parent and they're very clear . AIBU to say that, knowing these rules, it's your child you immediately single out in a new school by sending him/her in with tram lines hair, pink hair and make up?

Again missing the point. It's not about the uniform per se, it's about understanding that the school has a rule and your child needs to learn that they have to comply. If the school was non uniform then your child would also be complying if they wore their own clothes

No, some posters are stating clearly that uniform has a purpose because it teaches children the importance of uniform in a workplace. Other posters are pointing out why that argument is bollocks.

I went to a school with no uniform at all. It was fine. I can still dress appropriately for work and follow clothing policies.
And I was one of the poor students. Would have been much harder for my parents to pay for a logo uniform, plus clothes for outside school.

Frequency, on a separate note, do you not think uniform is important in a lot of work places then or should we all be wearing our own clothes?

Aba so you went to school with a non uniform policy and so therefore didn't wear uniform meaning you followed the school's rules and policies.

I get what you're saying now, CiderBrains, although I don't think many people on here are arguing against OP. Most agree that breaking the clearly-stated uniform policy and then complaining about the punishment is stupid.

I think the conversation already moved onto the pros and cons of uniforms in general.

It doesn't matter what the rules or whether anyone thinks they are silly but they are the school's rules. So if parents don't want their children to follow them they should just go and chose another school which recognises their family is so special that rules don't apply to them!

I think in certain places uniform is not important as such but adds an element of respectability that employers find attractive. I can understand why employers use it and using my own 'uniform' as an example, I probably would be more inclined, at least subconsciously, to go to a salon where the staff were primed and primped the way my boss likes me to be.

However with the exception of MacDonalds et al and army/emergency services I can't think of anywhere that has a uniform as prescriptive as most schools currently do and even some of those allow you to have your choice of hair colour. The nurse who did my asthma test last week had purple hair. I didn't find her any less capable of measuring my lung capacity than a nurse with natural coloured hair.

I'm not against school uniforms, I just think they've gone too far and gotten far too expensive. No child needs to wear a tie and around here most primary schools are requiring kids to wear the. The blazer my kids are expected to wear is £37 and the PE kits adds up to £50 all in all. I have two kids in that school. Some parents have three or four kids in school.

And restricting hair colour, as a PP pointed out, extends to dictating how they present themselves outside of school.

Yes exactly. A lot of uniform requirements are now pretty expensive which certainly creates a burden for poorer families.

I had to wear a tie at primary school. But few workplaces have ties for women. I learned how to tie a tie, a skill I have not needed in any adult workplace.

God knows but I wonder the same! I know why you put year 7 (it’s like saying reception) WHY deliberately start out breaking the rules and putting your child into an immediate battle, making life harder. Honestly I don’t get it.

Kids question things now a lot more than they used to I think which is good in some ways but TOO much in others. Sometimes my DC will question a rule and I don’t even bother explaining because sometimes all you need to know is ‘doesn’t really matter why, that is the rule and you do what you’re told’.

Have you seen a film called coach carter? It’s old. I loved it but anyway a new coach comes in and immediately make these boys have pride in their appearance and wear a tie, there uproar over it. Reminded me of this cos the parents and kids went mental haha....... I think it’s actually a true story as well x

My dh got sent home because he had a small amount of stubble, he certainly wouldn’t be allowed blue hair. Didn’t we also have the debate before that even in a heat wave men where not allowed to wear shorts while women could wear skirts as it’s not acceptable work attire.

Sure other countries manage with no unfirom but the majority of those children are taught respect for their school that the parents are having to pay fees for them to attend and will make their own acceptable uniform. Here all Those daily mail children would turn up looking like they are going to a rave or from a street gang, because there is no respect for their free must go to school.

Frequency you'd be surprised how many jobs require a uniform and not just for vanity reasons. I don't work in McDonald's or the army or the emergency services but my uniform is vital for hygiene and safety.

Uniform also often identifies the person to their role so it's easier to know who's who. The whole of the hospitality and catering industry require uniforms and for good reasons too.

It's not just some idiot making people where things they don't want to. Uniform is vital for safety, identification, presentation, hygiene and image in a lot of work places. Plus customers/patients and clients like to see people defined to their role in a lot of cases.

My uniform is essential and although I look a prat sometimes in a hat, I am proud to work for the company I do and to doing the job I do.

Quite often the things we let out kids rebel against as children, especially teens, isn't really what they want. How many times do we hear "I'm glad my mum and dad were strict with that because it meant I am now good at xyz." Or "my parents let me get away with that so much and I wish I I'd not because now I have to to xyz later in life which is a lot harder."

Teens rebel but it's our job to show them to respect what is expected of them because if they don't respect one thing that then leads to the attitude of not respecting another.

I suppose you could avoid the popping of your temple veins and barbaric treatment by adhering to the school rules in the first place.
Just a thought
But it's a school thread which means we need a good amount of hyperbole:
Barbaric isolation rooms
Torture (working in silence)
Dictatorship for having rules
Social and sensory deprivation (not allowed their mobile phones, lost social time and have to focus on their own work).

Reality - isolation rooms are a normal classroom with individual desks and little dividers to stop students from continuing to disrupt or get distracted by someone who wants to disrupt. They complete their work in silence, supervised by a member of staff.

I'll be honest, I don't even get into uniform arguments. It's simpler than that for me: Places and organisations have rules. Sometimes you will like them. Sometimes you won't. Follow the rules and raise issues appropriately.

I can guess why parents do this...
So mine was about to start school and all was ready to go apart from the hair. Took 2 hours of an argument and 10 phone calls between interested and not so interested parties to convince him to go and cut it (regardless of the school guidelines dictating it has to be neat and professional)... nearly lost my will to live!

@TeddybearBaby yes that's it exactly, the last thing I'd want for my kids is for them to be brought to the attention of a teacher negatively in the first week. It's wasn't difficult to tell him that no, he couldn't wear black trainers and they had to be school shoes for example. It's about getting off on the right foot and the parents on FB have been comedy gold these past few days

He doesn't care though - he will wear what he's told. My now 20 year old DD was trickier though as she wanted the skinny fit trousers they all wore and the bleached hair so we had the odd battle

MaisyPops

Agree with your entire post.

ConcreteUnderpants
There are some rules at my school I couldn't care less about, but part of running a school is having consistency so students know what is expected in every lesson. If I chose not to follow the rules I don't personally care for, I'm making life more difficult for my colleagues because they'll get a chorus of 'but Mrs Pops doesn't...'

When you have consistency then there's nuch less disruption, much fewer arguments, teens will push the rules a bit (because they are teens and we all did the same) and then they are reminded of the expectations.

Plus, some rules are easier to follow than others. I'd happily have students allowed a pair of small stud earrings, but then you have the issue of people wearing large stud earrings, very blingy earrings, earrings that aren't studs (especially considering some parents think black leather school shoes and no trainers means please buy your child branded trainers). Saving the debating time and potential for conflict by saying 'no earrings' is clear and easy to follow.

@GuavaPalava I can imagine! I see it at the primary school all the time! Mums proudly announcing ‘I ain’t doing that!! Let them say something to me about it!! It’s pathetic!’ 😂. I just wonder why some people want to fight EVERYTHING. I pick my battles.

Uniform is not about teaching kids anything. Uniform is about corporate image, the HT is selling the school to perspective parents and staff. It signals “we care about standards, we care about children’s education - look how much we obsess over uniform, we must really have our eye on the ball when it comes to your child” but image is just that - it’s easy for school to insist on uniform and we all like a bit of slick, we all like to judge a book by its cover. I wish they obsessed as much about teaching standards as they do about uniform - but we all know that uniform standards are a lot easy to improve than teaching standards - and give the illusion that everything else is ticking away nicely.

Standards of behaviour, attire, uniform are often linked.
In a school like mine we have a simple uniform and expect it to be followed. We have uniform reports and follow up those who repeatedly refuse to follow simple rules.
We also don't accept people disrupting learning. I've sent people out for repeatedly talking when their peers are giving answers. It is rude. Some may say 'but you can't send them out for that'. Of course I can. Their peers are giving answers; they are being rude. Each time I have to stop or interrupt another student to tell darling to stop talking and be polite, I've lost learning time.
We expect everyone in school to treat each other with courtesy and respect.
Our results are outstanding.

Sweat the small stuff and the big stuff very rarely happens.
When places take over schools, they have to start caring about the small stuff but are doing it in a context where big stuff is normalised. It can take around 5 years to really pull a school back.

Ciderbrains, I think the point is that having to wear uniform as a child is completely irrelevant to wearing it as a job requirement later in life; no-one needs any sort of "training" in school for that purpose. Look at all the countries where there is no school uniform culture but which nevertheless have no problem recruiting people for occupations where a uniform is required.

Frequency you'd be surprised how many jobs require a uniform and not just for vanity reasons. I don't work in McDonald's or the army or the emergency services but my uniform is vital for hygiene and safety

Yes, but how many are as restrictive as most schools are these days?

The Police, for example, I've seen policewomen with burgundy hair. I'm not sure on fashion colours but they're certainly allowed a lot more control over their hair colour than my daughter is. They can also wear a coat inside their workplace if they're cold or take their jacket off if they're warm. Police women don't have to wear thick, woollen tights in all weathers.

Unless you know of anywhere that dictates what coat you can wear on your way to work, demands you take it off the second you enter the school gates but also demands you leave your thick, synthetic blazer and woollen tights on in summer, restricts your choice of hair colour to only a few shades, restricts your haircut, dictates what colour bag you have and demands you buy your own uniform, from their choice of supplier no matter if you can't afford it?

Otherwise, I'm going to stick with the theory that uniform is not preparing children for the world of work as it is not reflective of the world of work and while it is not necessarily a bad thing it has gone too far and gotten too expensive.

I think the problem is many uniform policy’s are far from simple - they are impractical and expensive. I have kids who follow the uniform rules and it sometimes worries me how compliant they are - even on a day where it’s snowing and my child has to walk for 30mins in the stuff, in Bloody Mary Janes - the only school shoes I can find to fit her skinny feet - she needs permission to wear more weather appropriate footwear to the gates of the school, not even in the school - and the school don’t always get the message out in time. Compulsory blazers on very hot days on the way home from school is another problem - health and safety would suggest weather appropriate uniform, if it was adults the unions wouldn’t stand for it - the school’s corporate approach does not agree!

Where uniforms are unreasonable (like being forced to have blazers on when it's boiling), there are ways to raise it.

Often staff will find a way round things . (E.g. At my school staff decide how they manage blazers in their room so at the start of the year we tell all our classes that the rule is 'if you're not take it off, if you're cold, put it on'.)

If I worked in a school that didn't allow that (not that I would as it's removing teacher professionalism to manage my own room), i would be raising it in school and parents should be complaining. And by complaining, I mean complaining properly not a mumsnet complaint where you're fuming online and going to demand meetings and report to ofsted etc.

It's about teaching them to respect authority which is part of their social development

I teach my pupils and my child to respect those who deserve it. Would you respect Trump? Teresa May? I don't.

Standards of behaviour, attire, uniform are often linked

Actually, my research showed the opposite. When schools are concerned with things like uniform, hair and make-up, it lessens the impact of the more important issues. If children are able to be themselves, they also show better attainment as they aren't thinking about rebelling against rules blocking individualism.

I'm a teacher and I think uniform rules in this country are ridiculous. Look at the schools that are leading the world's attainment statistics - they don't have uniforms.

Uniforms are based on the "Human Capital" model of education that so many people in the UK are fond of. Schools only exist to produce workers. Uniform is in preparation for that. I don't want that for my child.

Personally, I choose to send my DS to a school that is very lax on uniform rules. School coloured t-shirt /jumper is fine. They can wear anything else on their legs and feet and have any hair colour of style they want. The school is very successful.