Why do parents of year 7 children do this?

[GuavaPalava]

So my DS has started secondary school this week. Prior to starting, we of course had parents evening, literature, uniform rules - it was made very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't

I was added to a 'new starters in year 7' FB group for my area a few months back and it's been used to ask the usual questions you may expect - apart from this week. It's all kicked off with the following ..

A parent in a fury as in day 1 she received a call saying her son's hair was not acceptable. Cue obligatory pic and he's got a half shaved head and tramlines

Another parent going mad as he DD had pink hair over the summer which she 'bleached out apart from the back' - she can't believe she's been told it needs to be sorted

And another moaning because she received a call about her DD wearing make up

All saying what you'd expect - it doesn't have any bearing on their ability to learn. And yeah, they're right - I get that

But why would you do this? You know the guidelines as a parent and they're very clear . AIBU to say that, knowing these rules, it's your child you immediately single out in a new school by sending him/her in with tram lines hair, pink hair and make up?

But you need to RESPECT YOUR BETTERS...
That's what school uniform rules are supposed to teach you: know your place and don't complain.

@knittingdad Not surprised it's an academy chain doing this. While there are some academies doing a reasonable job and/or set up by people with a genuine vision, a lot of them seem to be run by a mix of those whose motivation is to line their own pockets - and those who have an almost constant hard on at the potential bossing an academy has for bullying and controlling those who are in a weaker position.

And we’ve had the school freak at dd having to eat trainers for 2 weeks while her first pair of orthotics wear being made, she was in agony & she had a note from her GP and her podiatrist to explain why she couldn’t wear her black shoes, but every single bloody teacher saw fit to question her - eventually I asked her head of year if I needed to withdraw her from school while we waited on her orthotics - they backed down at that point and sent a mail to all staff telling them to back off!

Aside from the army, there are very few occupations that dictate how you look when you aren't in work and having rules about haircuts in school does exactly that. I totally get that they want a uniform for many reasons and essentially when the DC get home they can take it off and wear something else, they can't choose to have purple hair in the evenings and weekends only. I think that rules about physical appearance that isn't just clothing are unreasonable and I think that is definitely a starting point for a campaign with schools if you are inclined.

It's not about knowing your place and not complaining. It's about knowing what is expected of you within that environment.

The amount of people who turn up for work and can't accept that they have to wear a uniform correctly is terrible.

If the school say this is what we expect then ignore those not following those expectations then in a lot of cases that is setting that child up with the wrong attitude in employment.

Why do people who work on the front desk of somewhere where a uniform? Why can't they just turn up in what they like? Could the reason be because that company has a standard and imagine which they expect staff to follow? Or the other thousands of jobs which require uniform for various reasons.

Saying to miss princess/prince that it's ok, just ignore them, it won't effect your learning is missing the whole point entirely which is; school isn't just to teach your abcs, it's also there to teach you attendance, punctuality, respect, how to follow instructions and follow expectations as well as vital social skills. To not get this is setting kids up to fail or have their path made harder because they don't have these vital life attributes taught to them. Instead they just think it's fine to ignore the expectations. Employment won't take that sort of shit if there are expectations in how you dress so why not just teach them early?

How do kids in Non uniform schools ever cope with life as a receptionist! Must be very challenging! Really? I know some people are difficult, I’m not convinced school uniform makes them more compliant. Do we have evidence to support non uniform school kid’s inability to dress for work?

At my child's school they have to have a specific uniform from a specific uniform shop including a skirt with a logo on. It's a PITA and expensive but it is what it is. Anyway we had a meeting before the year 7s started, a get to know you, any questions type meeting...except no one had a chance to ask any questions as one man used question time to whine about the price of the skirt and do his absolute best to get the head to say he could buy any skirt he wanted; repeating the same question but framing it differently each time, nit picking and whining. Honestly I felt like strangling him by the end . There's always one, always.

Ciderbrains - completely agree,it's not just about the uniform/individuality argument. It's telling your kids that it's OK to break the rules if you think they're stupid and not worth sticking to, it creates a sense of entitlement/lack of respect too if little Jemima/Jeremy knows that their parents won't back teachers up if there's a problem and go in arguing on their behalf.
(I say this as a parent with two school age children too by the way.)

I'm in one myself. I have 6 children, 1 is now just in Y7... It always happens and seem to think they can get around the rules because of their year group.

Just to give you a glimpse into the future. I work in a place that employs thousands of people. A lot of them have worked there for many many years as it's not in a particular massive centre of population and can be a pain to get to. Consequently it's had a very stable workforce. Demographics and company changed have meant that we now have a lot of staff in the 18 to 25 age bracket. The difference in attitudes is quite startling. for example, although there is a large car park, spaces are in demand. You are supposed to have a pass to park, that's linked to your reg number and to you as an employee, if you park somewhere you shouldn't then you get a warning. Very little abuse up until the last few years. I can see young staff working wherever they like but they don't bother to get a pass so they can't be traced and those that are just carry on as they don't give a shit. One bit recently genuinely didn't understand why he shouldn't lol to the canteen at 11.30 am to buy a sandwich even though his lunch break wasn't until 1pm, even when it was explained that he was effectively having an extra 15 minutes break he wasn't entitled to. I have teenagers and this is definitely not aimed at branding them all as snowflakes or workshy, I just find the attitude astonishing compared to how we all behaved when we started work.

The problem with your argument, CiderBrains is that it falls apart when you realise that there are many, many schools that do not require a uniform, nations full of them in fact, where people still leave school and become receptionists, bankers, nurses and police officers.

So if the purpose of school uniform is to set people up to cope with working environments where they have to wear one, then it's completely unnecessary.

I also like to always point out on these threads that there are thousands of jobs out there for which you do not have to wear a certain type of clothing or have a certain hairstyle. And personally I'd rather my child took one of those than some office job that makes him wear a suit every day.

To all those saying the rules are OTT, their hair/clothes/shoes don't affect their ability to learn etc Don't you realise that these rules are in place to teach these children respect for rules! Respect for their appearance. Respect for their future workplace and dress codes!! 🤦🏼‍♀️

@IntentsAndPorpoises Is this a wind up? You teach your children to disregard rules?

You used to be a teacher but can't even spell 'affect' 🤦🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

Try telling anyone in my family they need to respect their 'betters'. If you subscribe to that then your ethos is wrong and you are the problem. You surely don't expect otter people to tell your children who and what they are? Schools don't teach values and ethics alone, or take on the large part of endowing self worth.

How can you imply anyone is better if you are all dressed the same? It's illogical.

Because some parents are just entitled arseholes.

Try telling anyone in my family they need to respect their 'betters'
If you subscribe to that then your ethos is wrong and you are the problem

If by that you mean children shouldn't expect children to respect their teachers, which in return means there's no respect and feel they're entitled to argue back, as mummy says I can and thinks it's a stupid rule anyway that should be ignored, I'd say you are part of the problem, not the other way round.
That way lies entitled little so and so's (being polite here lol, insert words of choice as needed) who thinks rules don't apply to them.

parents shouldn't expect children to that should read! Doh.

Powerless, how do you account for the fact that adults in other countries all managed to cope fine with uniforms and dress codes in the workplace despite growing up without school uniforms?

With the exception of a brief stint at McDonalds any place I've worked has had no uniform at all or something non-prescriptive and vague like 'office dress'.

Where I am now is the most strict and my 'uniform' is basically black, Black jeans or trousers, black top (if the sleeves are long they must be close to the skin) black shoes, trainers or boots. In summer black dresses are acceptable. I can buy a black t-shirt with the company logo of I want one or I can just wear a plain black top or a top with a non-offensive logo or slogan. Sometimes suppliers give us free t-shirts. We can wear these even if they are not black.

Make-up must be worn but must not be ott. Hair must be styled, fringes if worn must be kept at eyebrow length or shorter or pinned back. Grey hair must be covered with hair colour unless it is 90% or more grey and looks 'groomed'. Nails must be short and groomed. Eyebrows must be groomed and shaped.

Despite having never shaped or groomed my eyebrows or nails in my life and never having attended a school who made me do so, I manage to keep them to an acceptable standard because I am an adult, it is part of my job, the job for which I am paid and could leave if I wanted to.

"The problem with your argument, CiderBrains is that it falls apart when you realise that there are many, many schools that do not require a uniform, nations full of them in fact, where people still leave school and become receptionists, bankers, nurses and police officers.

So if the purpose of school uniform is to set people up to cope with working environments where they have to wear one, then it's completely unnecessary"

You're missing the point. The point is most schools do have a uniform policy in this country so deliberately rebelling against that policy is just teaching your child they don't have to abide by anyone's expectations if they don't want to. It's not so much about the uniform, it's about respecting their school rules. If other countries choose to have a non uniform policy then the child isn't going against the school rules so using that as an example is pointless.

It would be like saying "The staff in Tesco have to wear a uniform but the staff in CEX are allowed to where their own clothes and have piercings and dye their hair green so I won't bother complying with Tesco's uniform policy because CEX can do their job fine without one." 🤷🏼‍♀️

Unless schools are preparing our children for a lifetime of working at McDonalds, they can safely tone their uniform rules without messing up their future employability.

knittingdad-Personally I think it's barbaric that children are put into isolation for transgressing petty rules on appearance.

Hmmmm. I suppose you could avoid the popping of your temple veins and barbaric treatment by adhering to the school rules in the first place.
Just a thought.

"How do kids in Non uniform schools ever cope with life as a receptionist! Must be very challenging! Really? I know some people are difficult, I’m not convinced school uniform makes them more compliant. Do we have evidence to support non uniform school kid’s inability to dress for work?"

Again missing the point. It's not about the uniform per se, it's about understanding that the school has a rule and your child needs to learn that they have to comply. If the school was non uniform then your child would also be complying if they wore their own clothes.

In the workplace if you don't like the uniform then you are welcome to work somewhere else. The same applies to schools. If you don't like the uniform then find a school where they are more lax in enforcing their uniform policies. They do exist! The school I work in quite a bit is lax with uniform. The kids look a mess and I wouldn't send my kids there because the school cave every time a parent moans which doesn't do the school any good. A lot of them are also very entitled and rude but hey, if you want a relaxed uniform policy then unfortunately it comes with them being lax in other areas too..

I think a lot of people don't realise just how many jobs require a uniform which don't involve an office or McDonald's.

Some uniforms are there for image and standards and some are there for safety too.

In the hospitality industry you wouldn't want the chef wearing his own clothes and you wouldn't want the waitress in her own clothes either. We expect the manager to look smart in a shirt and the receptionist to look smart and presentable too for instance.