To think Rihanna is a complete and utter fraud!?

[MissionItsPossible]

Now I wasn’t that naive to think that people get songs written for them. I knew Cathryn Dennis wrote Britney Spears ‘Toxic’ for Kylie Minogue and that ‘Baby one more time’ was written for TLC but I thought it meant just that: songwriting. I have today found original demos and can’t believe the songs sound exactly the same with a word or two changed so the artist can say they wrote it. I singled out Rihanna as she’s the main culprit on the YouTube videos I found but most of them are at it. I didn’t know the melody and the tune and basically the entire song gets created for them. Am I the only person who didn’t know this? I think most of these demos sound better than her versions!

(You have to copy and paste to listen to the original ‘Umbrella’ as MN only allows 3 videos, I think)

I better add that this is lighthearted before somebody takes it a little too seriously!

you are probably not aware that people in society will attack a person of colour As you've just done, you mean? Then done a runner!

They have to have something in mind to know how long to make lines, which bits to rhyme, where to put the ooo ooo’s etc

Really they don't! That's not to say they never do. But no, the song writer can do all the manipulation of the basic lyrics, repeat when required, add the oohs etc.

Some pop stars are singer/songwriters, some are just singers. Thought everyone knew that songs are bought by artistes with music and lyrics. Thought it was a pretty obvious, just because someone can sing doesn’t mean they can write lyrics and music.

the fact that basically the songs are made for her. I thought only lyrics were bought and then her producers would create a song out of it

have you confused song writers with lyricists?

OP Amazing how there's just been a blatant case of racism and bullying right under our noses and everyone just carries on chatting!! Sorry you had that,
try not to let it upset you.

Who CARES?!

Thanks tillytop - I’m not hurt, just confused by their comments!

Does it matter? Is artistic integrity really an important facet of the experience when you listen to Rihanna?

The answer should be no, btw. There are plenty of other musicians that can offer you that instead of major label pop singers.

Think of it as songwriters needing someone to portray their song in the same way as scriptwriters/storytellers need actors to tell the story.

I just read TLC were offered Baby One More Time. Imagine!

I think they would have aced it!

Think of it as songwriters needing someone to portray their song in the same way as scriptwriters/storytellers need actors to tell the story

It's more like if the scriptwriter is a talented and trained actor, but has to stick to writing parts for other actors because she isn't "beautiful"/"marketable" enough to actually play the part in a film.

I’m just surprised how naive you sounded about the music industry! BBC 4 have some really good documentaries on music and probably worth reading about SAW as you can see how many artists they worked with including Kylie

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman

@personalitylines has got it spot on

Its not new though is it, this is just popular chart music in general especially now due to auto tune the manufactured artist is mainly just an image they are selling.

Chain Reaction: written by the Bee Gees for Donna Summer apparently. Never would have guessed it.

Lol at the “chuck the racism grenade in and then do a runner”. Random.

I think all artists try and get their names under the songwriter part don’t they so they can get a share of the royalties?

I’m just surprised how naive you sounded about the music industry! BBC 4 have some really good documentaries on music and probably worth reading about SAW as you can see how many artists they worked with including Kylie

Who sang the original demo of her songs? Are they on YouTube?

I used to write songs (lyrics) for other artists. Celina Dion still owns the rights to present one of them, though never has.

This is exactly the way it works.

You write a track, option and sell it to a vocalist or group for production.

I’ve had some nice royalty cheques for ones I retained an interest in!

PenguinRoar you should do an AMA!

Ha ha! On what? Just a job....

Kylie first hit was Locomotion which was a cover, not sure there would many demos as most songs date back to 80s for them.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Loco-Motion

Did Taylor Swift not start her career as a songwriter and only later move into singing? I think Prince wrote many more songs that he released as well.

It's more like if the scriptwriter is a talented and trained actor, but has to stick to writing parts for other actors because she isn't "beautiful"/"marketable" enough to actually play the part in a film

No that’s not true, not all songwriters are talented singers or even sing at all. Once a song is written, a demo is created & a demo singer (this is an actual job) is hired to sing the song - very rarely is it the songwriter in the demo. For example, if a man with a deep voice writes a song he thinks is perfect for Britney, a female demo singer with a pop sounding voice will be hired for the demo which is then sent to Britney’s team. If Britney turns it down & the same song is to be pitched to a RnB singer, then a brand new demo with a RnB demo singer will be made & so on.

penguin can u tell us what youve written?

op goes on all the time not eve4yrone is a singer/songwriter

Uh yeh, the song writer is the song writer, as in the person that writes the songs.

A performer may be great at performing but doesn't mean they can song write. A song writer may be brilliant at that but too shy to perform. Some people are skilled enough to do both and are called singer sing writers

To be fair, the writers make most of the money off the sales. Riri has to make her dollar elsewhere- tours, makeup, promotions etc etc

This is really not unusual

Its all business bollocks - not RTFT. As it works of severely piss me off - big people with fuck all talent make money out of small talented people by shark tactics to make themselves look good ... hopefully the small people are business savvy enough to get sufficient out of it themselves