To think Rihanna is a complete and utter fraud!?

[MissionItsPossible]

Now I wasn’t that naive to think that people get songs written for them. I knew Cathryn Dennis wrote Britney Spears ‘Toxic’ for Kylie Minogue and that ‘Baby one more time’ was written for TLC but I thought it meant just that: songwriting. I have today found original demos and can’t believe the songs sound exactly the same with a word or two changed so the artist can say they wrote it. I singled out Rihanna as she’s the main culprit on the YouTube videos I found but most of them are at it. I didn’t know the melody and the tune and basically the entire song gets created for them. Am I the only person who didn’t know this? I think most of these demos sound better than her versions!

(You have to copy and paste to listen to the original ‘Umbrella’ as MN only allows 3 videos, I think)

I better add that this is lighthearted before somebody takes it a little too seriously!

Torn is a cover isn't it? Not a copy

OP, search for revenge of the sound engineers it will open your eyes.
Auto tune is used for all the recordings and live performances of many pop stars.
The best were mariah Carey and michael Buble, they shift nearly a whole tone on theirs
The songwriters do get their money, they have copyright too.

It’s pretty standard in the industry I think, no need to single her out.

@grumiosmum Elton John does write his own music, it is the lyrics that he doesn’t write.

9amtrain but surely when writing the words they have a tune in mind, otherwise they’re just random words on a page
They have to have something in mind to know how long to make lines, which bits to rhyme, where to put the ooo ooo’s etc
OP seems to think someone writes down completely random words and then someone else comes up with the tune after - I just don’t know how anyone could think that’s possible

Starting with lyrics alone is not only possible but was common I thought? Just adapt them and add in the oohs etc as the song is being composed. It's just the reverse of composing a blank song and then adding lyrics afterwards.

I used to write lyrics for fun, but never music.

Yabu to call Rhianna a fraud just because of your lack of knowledge about the music industry

Elton John - also doesn't write his own songs.

Im not a great lover of Elton but he does write his own songs with Bernie Taupin

9amtrain but surely when writing the words they have a tune in mind, otherwise they’re just random words on a page

That could be called 'poetry'

Elton John and Bernie Taupin write completely separately. Taupin writes the lyrics, sends them to Elton who then writes the melody.

Exactly @Bunbunbunny, it's easy to jump on Rihanna's case (young successful woman of colour) but even easier to ignore most of be rest of the music industry, many of whom can't sing for toffee.

Is it a case of the green eyed monster at work here??

OOPs, I stand corrected about Elton John.

Ed co-wrote Shape Of You in 30mins flat. It’s in an interview on the radio, can’t remember with who though.

Elton John and Bernie Taupin write completely separately

I know that,i didnt meant they sat at a desk.I meant they rite together as a partnership.

This isn’t new news is it. Many artists collaborate, always have done.

Sorry OP I’m genuinely not understanding what you are getting at.

Did you think lyrics were bought and then put to music by the artist?

Yes Or if not the artist then their team would ‘create’ the music. I didn’t know the song was basically recorded and then the singer copies it.

Exactly @Bunbunbunny, it's easy to jump on Rihanna's case (young successful woman of colour) but even easier to ignore most of be rest of the music industry, many of whom can't sing for toffee

Is it a case of the green eyed monster at work here??

No, because I don’t want to be a pop star I mentioned I singled Rihanna out because her songs were the most I found out on YouTube. I also acknowledged she wasn’t the only one! I’m also a person of colour so don’t try and insinuate that had anything to do with it, if you don’t mind.

@TeaAddict235, Why on earth are you bringing skin colour into it?

Hold on - can somebody explain to me - are you saying that these singers basically rip off others who have actually written the songs and the writers don't see any money?

Or just that the singers can pop in a line or two and then can say they've co-written it?

As long as the writers get paid and acknowledged, I don't care if the singers aren't really writing their songs. They singers perform, but a whole team create the music and the video and the stage performance.

Couldn't care less if you are a person of colour or not, but from your thread and general ignorance you are probably not aware that people in society will attack a person of colour and especially a woman rather than say a white male. You've been indicated numerous times on this thread that many others are also singers and not songwriters yet you persist. Personally in couldn't give a rats as there are better singers out there.

Good night OP,

As you were. The world needs saving and all that, looks like you're the one for the job.

IIRC Umbrella was written for Brittany.

So so so many artists wrote songs for other artists. Sia, Lady Gaga, Ed, Bruno Mars and Prince have all done so.

Couldn't care less if you are a person of colour or not, but from your thread and general ignorance you are probably not aware that people in society will attack a person of colour and especially a woman rather than say a white male. You've been indicated numerous times on this thread that many others are also singers and not songwriters yet you persist. Personally in couldn't give a rats as there are better singers out there.

Good night OP,

As you were. The world needs saving and all that, looks like you're the one for the job.

What the actual fuck?

Are you trying to get mentioned on the ‘AIBU to hate people derailing the lighthearted threads’ thread?

You can be credited as a songwriter if you're simply in the same room as the songwriting process, you don't even have to input a word

Dolly parton wrote and sang I will always love you, from The Bodyguard movie, I still think Whitney Houston did a better job of it than dolly.
Dolly made the song in 1974, the movie came out in 1992

Bruno Mars has written LOADS

I just read TLC were offered Baby One More Time. Imagine!

A few of Sia and Gagas songs were written for other artists and then they went on to have hits with them themselves.

I have no problem at all with singers not writing the songs they sing. Singing and song writing are completely different skills so it's unreasonable to expect them to be able to do both. What I object to is the singer getting the credit for the writing when they've contributed two words or one twiddle.

I also object to another variation of this .... people who compose musicals... but actually this just means the tunes and basic harmonies. The orchestrator gets barely a mention. As far as I'm concerned that should be a double billing. Or triple when there's a lyricist too.