To think Rihanna is a complete and utter fraud!?

[MissionItsPossible]

Now I wasn’t that naive to think that people get songs written for them. I knew Cathryn Dennis wrote Britney Spears ‘Toxic’ for Kylie Minogue and that ‘Baby one more time’ was written for TLC but I thought it meant just that: songwriting. I have today found original demos and can’t believe the songs sound exactly the same with a word or two changed so the artist can say they wrote it. I singled out Rihanna as she’s the main culprit on the YouTube videos I found but most of them are at it. I didn’t know the melody and the tune and basically the entire song gets created for them. Am I the only person who didn’t know this? I think most of these demos sound better than her versions!

(You have to copy and paste to listen to the original ‘Umbrella’ as MN only allows 3 videos, I think)

I better add that this is lighthearted before somebody takes it a little too seriously!

Google Tin Pan Alley OP, it’s fascinating. Carole King is another good example of someone who would write for others and demo the songs in the style that she thought the artists should perform them.

Even Adele doesn't write ALL her own stuff

And often there is a culture of vanity crediting the artist and all they've really contributed is to change "a" to "the"

It's the industry, that's how it is. Exec Prod credits in film and TV are frequently vanity only also.

(Shrug )

I think YABU OP

Oh and whilst I'm here, Beyoncé's recent album in which she "called out Jay Z's infidelity" one of those songs, with that content was written by a British woman and chosen for the purpose so no it's not about Jay Z or by Beyoncé

"Like a virgin" was originally written with a man in mind but the composer was mucking about and started singing as high as he could then discovered it was much better in a higher key.

I don't think Rihanna is a fraud as I've never heard her claim to be more than a singer. I'm more annoyed when performers pretend to play instruments.

Sia has written a lot of songs. Her demo versions of Pretty Hurts (Beyoncé) and Diamonds (Rihanna) are not far off from the final product.

Not many that are well known.

I used to write for specific labels or producers. Some on spec, others by commission. My brief wouldn’t say the artist, but might say “pop-country Style for mainstream market, female.”

Some might be full rights assigned - so they would get all onward monies,with some I might be a named writer with credit/royalties.

It’s the difference between being a singer, and being a singer songwriter.

I have a friend who used to work in the music industry and even released and album in the 80's. According to him, many small time song writers write the songs and artists buy them with a one off payment. And then claim it as their own.

The song writer may get a small percentage of royalties or may not get anything if they have released the rights when making the sale.

Ryan Tedder, the lead singer in One Republic has also written a lot of songs to other famous artists.

Slight thread drift but in 1971, Norman 'Hurricane' Smith had a UK top ten hit with 'Don't Let It Die'. He wrote the song himself and offered it to John Lennon, who turned it down. Hurricane's success could have been JL's. The best song John Lennon never recorded.

Similarly, in 1976, Neil Diamond's guitar technician - Larry Williams - wrote a catchy pop/country song that he originally offered to his boss. ND passed on it so Larry Williams instead gave it to the cousins of Diamond's drummer. The cousins were otherwise known as The Bellamy Brothers, the song - 'Let Your Love Flow'. A worldwide top ten hit.

I love the first one

Lol at the “chuck the racism grenade in and then do a runner”. Random.

I agree with the PP. Thought it on page 1.

Uhm ok...

I agree with the PP. Thought it on page 1.

On what grounds though? OP could easily have said Katy Perry and no drama?

On what grounds though? OP could easily have said Katy Perry and no drama?

If she'd said Katy Perry I would have wondered why she was "light heartedly" singling out 1) a woman and 2) why that woman for doing something that is apparently rife within the industry.

So she’d have had to have singled out a white man and then the conversation could have continued with no ulterior motive?

I was going to mention Ryan Tedder. He has written songs and been asked to write for many Artists including Beyonce. So they do sometimes write songs with a particular Artist in mind.

I never used to like Paul McCartney, which was a sin, coming from Liverpool, but actually, he is talented.

As said, its odd that Riri is getting singled out, when she, along with many are just the performing artist.

Madonna used to get a lot of respect for writing her own stuff, as well as being able to perform. Likewise Lady Gaga, who, at least contributes to the writing.

So she’d have had to have singled out a white man and then the conversation could have continued with no ulterior motive?

In that case I'd have wondered why she single out anyone for doing something that is rife in the industry.

Why not simply say "can you believe this is common/the done thing in the music industry?"

Why single out any one artist - and especially an ethnic minority female at that?

Guess my name will be joining the rogue's gallery on the "don't you hate those cunts who ruin light hearted threads" thread. Ho hum.

""So she’d have had to have singled out a white man and then the conversation could have continued with no ulterior motive?""

It does seem to always be, young, black Women, who are the most scrutinised.

Also, OP, if you can cope with the extra shock, she doesn't do her own hair and make-up, or buy the clothes for the videos, either.

And many don't even use their own names.

at "Hurricane's success could have been John Lennon's." Like John Lennon was a struggling artist looking for a breakthrough hit.

I genuinely don't understand how you didn't already know this OP?

Most singers are just that .. singers. They just sing I can't understand why you're surprised

I still think Whitney Houston did a better job of it than dolly

Wash your mouth out, young lady! Dolly is a legend.

The x factor killed the Whitney version for me, it must have been trotted out 28000 times in the auditions by now.

God yeah, I hated the Whitney version which always seemed to be whining out of the radio when I was a teen. When I heard the Dolly original years later, having had no idea it was one of hers, I was blown away to realise what a wonderful song it actually was.

I think what the op is describing is normal? Riri is a popstar not a songwriter & no different from the vast majority.

Isn’t Beyoncé always on the writing credits for not much input?
I was suprised to read that singers don’t always get credited when they are singing a song & the listener assumes it’s the “star”.