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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a rapist shouldn't be in a women's prision to start with?

450 replies

MipMipMip · 06/09/2018 17:01

A rapist has now admitted to assaulting female prisoners while in a women's prision. (This individual is in prision for rape but the assaults on prisoners do not appear to have been rape. Assuming all have come forward. )

But there is a large part of me that think this is down almost entirely to the people who put him there. Don't get me wrong - I blame the rapist. But it is clear that they are opportunistic. So while you wouldn't be surprised if someone went in a tigers cage and got eaten, you shouldn't be surprised that a rapist going into a women's prision assaults women.

These assaults were wholly avoidable. AIBU to think the people who enabled the rapist should be held partially responsible?

*for clarity: as MNHQ do not allow a person to be misgendered and this individual identifies as trans I have not used male pronouns. I hope that this does not prevent clear discussion.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:02

The safety of prisoners should always come first.

Datun · 08/09/2018 00:03

It's wilful nonsense.

Deliberate.

According to Kitty there are no circumstances under which a convicted rapist can be barred from a female prison. Because that rapist only has to say some magic words, as far as Kitty is concerned.

This rapist doesn't have gender dysphoria, has never been diagnosed and, according to all their friends, is a drag queen. A perfect example of someone milking the system and making demands.

Which kitty is fine with, because Kitty places men above women.

And now another few thousand lurkers have seen it.

Keep it up kitty.

Bejazzled · 08/09/2018 00:03

Same as the other decent posters on here are saying, don't tag me 'little' kitty, I don't want to be associated with someone like you.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/09/2018 00:03

Ten years ago if I had been told we would be having these trans debates I would have laughed

I simply would not have believed this ridiculous idea that men can identify as women just because they want to and that safe spaces for women were also for males and that shouldn’t be questioned

I can’t get my head around how this ludicrously false idea is now actually having an impact on us

Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:04

HOw do you know the motives of a sex offender wanting to become a lady. How do you know if they are genuine, or done to gain access to more victims to abuse? You don't!

Ballsofmush · 08/09/2018 00:04

I don't think being in prison means you lose basic human rights. Which is why those women should have been protected from this child abuser and rapist.

LittleKitty1985 · 08/09/2018 00:05

@TwistedStitch someone who would allow women to be sexually assaulted

With all due respect, if you'd actually read my posts then you'd know that I firmly believe in protecting female prisoners from sexual assaults and wish to refocus people's attention on what can be done about that. Better psychological treatment for sexual offenders would be a good place to start.

TwistedStitch · 08/09/2018 00:05

I don't understand the legal process here. White doesn't have a GRC and we don't (in theory anyway) have self ID. So why was this move sanctioned anyway when there is no legal basis?

Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:06

There is something intrinsically sick and perverse, when sex offenders rights trump that of everybody else, and to put them in with prisoners who are vulnerable. Changing gender, does not cure them, they are still the same nasty, perverted individuals that they always were.

TwistedStitch · 08/09/2018 00:06

Stop tagging me.

UpstartCrow · 08/09/2018 00:07

There aren't any rehabilitation programs for female sex offenders, as they are so rare.
Thats one reason male sex offenders transition. They can evade the programs they are supposed to attend.

Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:07

No Kitty, keeping sex offenders away from women is a good place to start!!!

Datun · 08/09/2018 00:08

TwistedStitch

A GRC gives you automatic transfer. Unless you are deemed suitable for the highest security possible, in which case you stay in the male estate, because there is no such facility in the female estate.

Someone without a GRC can still be transferred, but it's assessed on a case-by-case basis.

However, even this didn't seem to happen on this occasion. They were just sent straight to the women's prison without any assessment.

SPOFS · 08/09/2018 00:08

@MyDoctor did a runner as soon as he was accused of being the good doctor.... hmmmm...

Datun · 08/09/2018 00:09

I simply would not have believed this ridiculous idea that men can identify as women just because they want to and that safe spaces for women were also for males and that shouldn’t be questioned

I can’t get my head around how this ludicrously false idea is now actually having an impact on us

This.

Ereshkigal · 08/09/2018 00:10

However, even this didn't seem to happen on this occasion. They were just sent straight to the women's prison without any assessment.

Which is fucking outrageous.

TwistedStitch · 08/09/2018 00:12

Thanks for the info Datun. You would think that 'rapist of women' might have raised a few concerns. I really hope these poor women sue. As someone who has been raped the thought of being locked up with someone like this is actually making me feel panicky. And we know just how many women in prison have been victims of abuse. It makes me want to cry that this has happened, I'm so angry.

Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:15

There is noway a sex offender of women, should be put in a women's prison, even if they now identify as a women, especially if they still have their penis in which they raped women with. Anybody who sympathises with them is just as bad.

Datun · 08/09/2018 00:20

I'm so angry.

I am angry too. It's the correct, rational response.

It's not just about the women in there either. It's about how this is being allowed. That is also, to me, very scary.

The rationale, the thought process, the ignorance, the lack of empathy.

A series of instances, every minutely, incremental step of which is wrong.

Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:22

Anyone who disagrees with this madness, is called a bigot and transphobe, there you go!

Original poster
MipMipMip · 08/09/2018 00:26

From Little Kitty However this point is not relevant in this specific case because, as we've covered, a penis was not involved in the sexual assaults.

From the Telegraph a sexual advance to another inmate, while in an aroused state (assuming aroused state means with erection. I believe this is the same incident : from Daily Mail White stood close to another inmate, touched her arm and exposed herself.

From Telegraph Just days later she was accused of pushing her hips and penis against another prisoner

Yes, penis was clearly involved. And the threat more so.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 08/09/2018 00:28

The rationale, the thought process

The what? It seems to be an irrational dogma.

Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:28

He is in prison for rape and should be nowhere near a woman, it does not what women, but any women full stop!

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/09/2018 00:32

Better psychological treatment for sexual offenders would be a good place to start

Many get a huge amount of support to help them change the vast majority simply don’t want to. Tight restrictions around them are what stops them reoffending

Original poster
MipMipMip · 08/09/2018 00:37

I suggest anyone interested in what's happening listens to this, from about 20 minutes in.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgp8gm

One highlight: out of 125 self proclaimed trans prisioners (and I don't know where they are housed) 60 are in prision for sexual offences.

OP posts:
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