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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a rapist shouldn't be in a women's prision to start with?

450 replies

MipMipMip · 06/09/2018 17:01

A rapist has now admitted to assaulting female prisoners while in a women's prision. (This individual is in prision for rape but the assaults on prisoners do not appear to have been rape. Assuming all have come forward. )

But there is a large part of me that think this is down almost entirely to the people who put him there. Don't get me wrong - I blame the rapist. But it is clear that they are opportunistic. So while you wouldn't be surprised if someone went in a tigers cage and got eaten, you shouldn't be surprised that a rapist going into a women's prision assaults women.

These assaults were wholly avoidable. AIBU to think the people who enabled the rapist should be held partially responsible?

*for clarity: as MNHQ do not allow a person to be misgendered and this individual identifies as trans I have not used male pronouns. I hope that this does not prevent clear discussion.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 07/09/2018 23:18

because this particular sex offender is trans male and in a female prison with women

FTFY

BrickByBrick · 07/09/2018 23:19

The men put in gen pop were not a threat to women prisoners because they were separate.

No other functioning penis owner who has a history of rape has been placed in a women's estate because, you know, commonsense says it is a bad idea. We therefore had nothing to be angry about.

Commonsense flew out the window here.

Bejazzled · 07/09/2018 23:20

Honestly I think anyone who uses the phrase 'her penis' in a serious discussion probably shouldn't be allowed out alone.

BeUpStanding · 07/09/2018 23:21

I don't think that the fact that this person is transgender should enter into it.

It is entirely relevant. How else have we ended up in a situation where a man convicted of rape is housed in a women's prison?

TwistedStitch · 07/09/2018 23:23

There is not a chance in hell that any of the apologists on here would support a male rapist who wasn't trans being put into a women's prison. You would acknowledge that it was a dangerous and appalling thing to do. What is it about the sentence 'I identify as a woman' that suddenly makes it an okay thing to do, and makes the risk go away? If John Worboys announced his female identity tomorrow would you support his move? Or David Chanellor? Or Levi Bellfield? I believe Ian Huntley is already trying.

OrchidInTheSun · 07/09/2018 23:25

Please don't @ me kitty. White assaulted women because he is a rapist man, not because he is trans

TwistedStitch · 07/09/2018 23:25

*Challenor

northernruth · 07/09/2018 23:31

Honestly the only thing more depressing than a rapist in a women's prison is women defending that position. How do you get to be so woke that you care more about a rapist than the safety of vulnerable women???

BeUpStanding · 07/09/2018 23:37

LittleKitty- More so than any other female convicted of sexual assault with a shiv against my throat and her fingernails scratching my insides? No not really!

Are you practising prose for a bad novel?

On a more serious note, Karen White is a convicted rapist, therefore they are a man so they cannot be compared to 'any other female convicted of sexual assault'.

Also 98% of sexual offenders are male, so if you just as concerned about being sexually assaulted by a women you must have such a maladjusted sense of risk that I'd be concerned for you crossing roads unaccompanied.

LittleKitty1985 · 07/09/2018 23:38

Seriously? How can you even type that [her penis] with a straight face?

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you about why its wrong to be transphobic, & don't need to - social change is occurring and transphobia will be seen the same way as homophobia and racism within our lifetime.

A male rapist is a specific threat to women. A penis can have specific implications for women such as pregnancy.

You make an interesting point. Perhaps in the cases where there is a history of sexual assault, only castrated trans-women should be transferred to female prisons. However this point is not relevant in this specific case because, as we've covered, a penis was not involved in the sexual assaults.

Why does his 'gender identity' get prioritized over the safety of female inmates?

It doesn't, these are two separate issues.

Littlekitty can you explain why you think a male rapist should be housed in a women's prison?

I don't. She's no longer male.

Why his feelings are so important?

Because she's a human being with basic human rights.

PenguinRoar · 07/09/2018 23:43

The most alarming piece of information in the radio 4 interview was an FOI request which gave the information that of the 125 people identifying as trans in UK prisons, 60 of them I.e nearly 50% had convictions for sex crimes.

It is dreadful to think of the women at risk, and the abuse of trans identity by these individuals who are clearly not trans, or so disturbed that they have committed these crimes and are not receiving care/support they need.

Safeguarding seems to completely have been forgotten.

TwistedStitch · 07/09/2018 23:45

You are a rape apologist Kitty. Do you think White's victims should be forced to call him 'she' and have their assault recorded as by a woman? And the penis isn't irrelevant, his penis was erect and visible during the assaults. He was escalating and it is pure luck that a female inmate wasn't raped. Will you support Ian Huntley's move?

TwistedStitch · 07/09/2018 23:47

She's no longer male

Really? Can you explain how that works please? How is he no longer male? What makes him now female?

Ereshkigal · 07/09/2018 23:53

Because she's a human being with basic human rights.

What about the feelings and basic human rights of the female prisoners?

Bejazzled · 07/09/2018 23:54

We are wasting our collective breaths.

I wouldn't give the steam off my piss to a rape apologist on fire. Imo they are oxygen thieves.

LittleKitty1985 · 07/09/2018 23:55

@Ereshkigal Yes exactly, we should be focusing on improving the safety of all prisoners instead of getting distracted by whether or not this one has a penis!

Ereshkigal · 07/09/2018 23:55

Agree. If people like this are the right side of history, I'm happy to be on the wrong side.

BeUpStanding · 07/09/2018 23:55

LittleKitty - I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you about why its wrong to be transphobic

What is your definition of 'transphobic'? As far as I can tell, it means doing or saying anything that a trans person might not like.

TwistedStitch · 07/09/2018 23:56

Actually LittleKitty forget it. I've just seen some of your other posts defending the genderfeelz of child molesters. There is something seriously wrong with you and I want no further part in it.

Ereshkigal · 07/09/2018 23:56

Don't @ me. This is about male rapists. Who should in no circumstances be put in a woman's prison.

LittleKitty1985 · 07/09/2018 23:56

@Bejazzled @TwistedStitch Yes we're all wasting our "breath". People calling me a "rape apologist" have clearly not even read what I've written!

TwistedStitch · 07/09/2018 23:59

Don't @ me again, your posts sicken me and I have no wish to engage any further with someone who would allow women to be sexually assaulted with no means of escape to spare the feelings of a rapist.

Ballsofmush · 08/09/2018 00:00

How was a penis not involved in the assaults Kitty? I thought exposing his erect penis was one of the things Karen White did in jail?

ErrolTheDragon · 08/09/2018 00:01

She's no longer male

Mammals can't change sex.

Rational, mature transsexuals have posted on these boards that they know they will always be male. They may wish it wasn't the case, but they're not delusional and are truthful. They're mostly fully transitioned, I believe. These people are transwomen. I really doubt that the sex offender we're talking about should be given the same name as them, let alone 'woman'.

Aeroflotgirl · 08/09/2018 00:01

It does not matter what gender they are, a sex offender who has raped a women, does not belong in a women's prison with the very people he has violated. A transwomen will always be biologically male, you cannot change genetics same as a transman will always be biologically Female.