To be appalled at how most couples share childcare of a newborn?

[lmcc13]

I’m in a same-sex couple with my wife, together for 7 years and married for 2. We were delighted to add to our family four weeks ago when my wife gave birth to our beautiful baby boy. Becoming a parent, I’ve noticed lots of people (friends, colleagues and strangers) sharing anectdotes about their own parenting experiences. The thing that has shocked me most is how unequally caring for a newborn seems to be shared between the couple. We don’t have any other gay parent friends, so I don’t know if this is different in same-sex partnerships, but amongst straight couples it still seems the norm for the stay at home parent (exclusively mums in our social circle) to do the lion’s share of the work; during the day, in the evening and at night. I keep hearing “well of course if she’s breastfeeding, there’s not much you can do to help” and “well, I have to get up and go to work in the morning”. I find both comments infuriating! My wife is exclusively breastfeeding, and I am now back at work, but the list of things I can contribute towards raising our son is long. I clean and tidy the house, get shopping in, load and unload the dishwasher, change 95% of the nappies when I’m home (including all the night nappy changes), sterilise the breast pump when she expresses...etc etc. I’m up in the night every time the baby cries to change the baby, help my wife into the feeding chair, then later burp the baby and settle him back into his cot. And, like most of our friends and colleagues, I have an office job - I might be tired and incoherent at work occasionally during the day, but I’m not solely responsible for a human life! Unless the working parent drives, operates machinery or cares for others (nurses, teachers etc.) I refuse to believe that they can’t share in the exhaustion too. Very long rant, sorry! I think I’m just a very disappointed feminist to realise that parenthood seemingly transports many women back to be 1950’s. Why are women allowing this to happen, and why aren’t men stepping up more?

We had a very traditional split - I prefer to think 1990s not 1950s. I think feminists do women a huge disservice by imposing their view of acceptable family life onto other women. That’s no less damaging or controlling than the male dominated systems they claim to be fighting. It’s about families having choice, surely?

I would not have wanted to hand over care of my neonates to anyone. I wanted constant, lovely, warmth and feeding. I wanted them to be very securely attached and have the very best start in life. Recent research suggests neonatal stress may be implicated in apADHD - how much less stressful to be in constant, direct, contact with the mother who gave birth to you?

Role differentiation does not mean inequality. Father’s don’t need to become mothers. Some mothers make a positive choice to spend a few years as the primary caregiver. That’s not necessarily a bad thing for the family unit. The father can build their career and increase the family income. The mother can provide constancy, routine and security supported by their husband in many activities. They don’t have to become a drudge.

Women are fortunate they can take up careers again after a relatively short break. It could be argued it was men who missed out - working 12 hour days, six or seven days a week to provide financial security. It is the father who is likely to miss the first smile, the first steps, the nativity plays. My husband would die laughing if anyone suggested I was the lesser half in the relationship.

I can't imagine anything worse than dh getting up in the night to watch me breastfeed. I feed in the dark and in silence... what's he going to do? Sit and stare at me?

I take the view that as long as what both partners are doing is equal, it doesn't have to be the same. By 7:30pm both children are in bed and I'm sitting on the sofa watching tv whereas dh is still at his desk or, if he's lucky, on the train... but since I do the night feeds we are both 'on' for roughly the same length of time in 24 hours. Seems fair to me.

“intensely lonely looking after a baby”

Maternity leave is what you make it. I’m 6 months into my second maternity leave and personally I’m too busy to be lonely!

Honestly this thread is ridiculous, the next suggestion will be that bf is terribly anti feminist or something. My DH would be insulted if he read this thread, so he doesn’t do his fair share of parenting because he doesn’t get up in the night with the baby? What about all the bathtimes, bedtime stories, days out, bum wiping, nappy changes, making lunch for the 3 of us, etc etc?

I would not have wanted to hand over care of my neonates to anyone. I wanted constant, lovely, warmth and feeding. I wanted them to be very securely attached and have the very best start in life.

Are you seriously suggesting that being cared for by their dad/other parent DAMAGES newborns? Or am I misunderstanding?

It’s all a bit dramatic and high emotion. That might be due to it being first baby and the op feeling left,out due to being in a same sex couple.

No, sorry. Expecting your partner to get up in the middle of the night to keep you company because it’s lonely being by yourself is diva like behaviour. No way round it.
How would you feel if he nudged you awake every time he had trouble sleeping?

Can I ask what partners are supposed to do to support a breastfeeding mum who co sleeps and feeds lying down? What are the tasks that need doing or other support that's needed?

It isn't the point of the thread, but when DP was breastfeeding, I made her a huge cup of tea, because you get dehydrated feeding. Sure, she could have sipped water and ate a biscuit, but she actually liked having the tea. And then we watched crappy TV. It was a weirdly lovely time.

I was teaching while DD was newborn and it was a pile of piss compared to doing solo days and nights. I understand why some jobs need a lot of sleep, but teaching (mentioned a couple of times on this thread) doesn't strike me as an obvious one.

Sorry, that was a cross-post assassinated, though it now looks like a reply to you.

I don't think there's a 'should' about it, because people all prefer different things. I know our experience was very specific to the fact that DP couldn't easily lift DD out of her cot until she was getting on for 9 months old, and couldn't co-sleep because she's a deep sleeper.

In fairness I breastfed mine and my DH got up with me for the first two weeks to change and burp and pass me the baby.

After that I just did them and if it was a particularly long night i would glare at his sleeping back.

Overall he did all the cooking and laundry and decent amount of cleaning in the newborn stage unprompted.

I do think there are a few matyr's on this thread making excuses for lazy partners.

LRDtheFeministDragon - I wouldn't particularly want you teaching my children whilst you were sleep deprived. I'm a teacher too and know full well I can't give 100% if I've been up all night with the kids.

I also found breastfeeding incredibly lonely for the first 6 weeks and dh' s active interest in being there helped me feel more secure and to carry on.

Oh well, my students and colleagues give me excellent reviews, so perhaps teaching isn't quite the job for you, if you struggle so much?

But are we judging (male?) partners who don't wake up and do things when the partner is co-sleeping and feeding lying down? Unless I'm missing something there's nothing for a partner to do, and it's a massive assumption to judge them as not being an equal parent or being lazy.

Also, while I teach, I make damn sure I also teach my students about family dynamics and take time to show them that live interacts with work, because that's the responsible thing to do. And because they see that is true of me - because I'm not too proud to tell them I'm a mum who gets up with her baby as well as a teacher - they feel more able to come to me about the bits of their lives that aren't 'perfect' student moments (like having depression, or in a couple of cases, having concerns about pregnancy). So I would defend to the hilt teaching while parenting.

Oh come on LRD, that's a little bit unnecessary towards canonlydoblue. I was a teacher and found it very hard to deliver my best lessons when I'd had little/broken sleep.

LRD I’m sorry you’re so upset by this thread.

Apart from the breastfeeding which was a nightmare for me as I had to have three ops after I gave birth to my fourth, my husband did pretty much everything in those first few weeks with our newborns! He was amazing.
He would get up every night, make me a hot drink, I would feed the baby, then go straight back to sleep while my lovely fella would watch Baby TV lol, I would always tell him he didn't have to, and he knew he didn't, but he knew if I was up all night I would probably have a bad migraine, so he took on so many jobs so that I didn't get too stressed,
I was also caring for my Mum at the time too, not lazy! lol
Fathers I know do more than their fair share, families are definitely not as divvied into certain roles as they used to be in my book.

assass - well, I dunno who 'we' are. Personally, I think there's a huge range of different approaches that no one should judge, including having a partner (male or female) who does nothing when nothing is wanted.

What is a problem, is the social expectations that put us all under pressure. I do think there is a social expectation that taking care of a newborn is 'easier' than working outside the home. I agree with the OP it seems to be linked to gendered expectations more widely. And I definitely judge those expectations; I also judge those (IME, relatively few) men and women who actively try hard to shame people into following them.

I think what's much more common is for couples to slip into patterns, though. And I do think that's actually incredibly complexly gendered. It would be lovely to think that being a lesbian would suddenly give you a fascinating insight into the inequalities of bad old straight relationships and you'd be handed the giant hammer that would let you smash the patriarchy with one blow.

It's not so. No one has thought it was so since the 1970s (if they ever really thought it then).

The gender politics around parenting still exists with lesbian parents, just in a refracted and complicated way depending on how outside experiences and inside conditioning have shaped each individual in a couple. For example, my DP is always considered to be 'dad' and expected to earn money; I am always considered to be 'mum' and asked why I didn't carry the baby.

I think the main thing that matters is that women have space to talk about these things, because even if we all disagree about what we'd each have preferred to do with a newborn, what's important to know is that there isn't just one way to do it.

bloody - you've very kind. No, I'm ok, but I do definitely feel for the OP, and I do remember when a thread like this would have been really crushing. It's not that people mean to be crushing, but IME having a baby suddenly makes you 'see' homophobia in a way you never did before.

Ugh, triple post. Sorry.

assass - mmm, yes, but she did say she wouldn't want me to teach her children! Bit unnecessary. I don't, as it happens, find it hard to teach well when sleep deprived. I understand that she does, but she's no call to presume I'm like that too.

LRD - I'm glad you're such an excellent teacher, and can do so while sleep deprived. I'm off to google new jobs right now as clearly my 12 years of teaching and numerous outstanding lessons are all a sham. I'm broken..........

I think it's probably more common for massively sleep deprived teachers to find it harder to deliver their best lessons. Overall I'd rather that teachers weren't typically massively sleep deprived. If you're just as capable on no/little sleep then that's great, but I doubt it's typical.

I agree that social conditioning makes it more likely that women slip into stereotyped roles that they aren't always happy with. It is also very easy for male partners to continue with life as if nothing has changed.

I really object to the idea that exclusively breastfeeding makes you a martyr and that somehow you've just fallen into sexist stereotypes. It feels to me like a uniquely female role is being denigrated and dismissed.

Yes in an ideal world, no one would teach, drive, operate machinery, or so anything responsible whilst feeling tired.

Meanwhile in the real world, most women go back to work whilst their babies are not sleeping through and they somehow manage. It's an ability which appears to be unique to the multitasking female, as men just wouldn't be able to cope with that.

(I still think duplication of effort at night is stupid though)

When my first was born I did nearly everything. My husband was working 6.5 days a week. Had his own business so could take no time off work. He brought me home from hospital and that was it. I didn't expect him to get up during the night while I was breastfeeding. Why would I? He had his job and the baby and the house were my job. He did little bits of housework like taking out dustbins and he tried to get home for bathtime. Worked very well for us and I was happy with it.