To be appalled at how most couples share childcare of a newborn?

[lmcc13]

I’m in a same-sex couple with my wife, together for 7 years and married for 2. We were delighted to add to our family four weeks ago when my wife gave birth to our beautiful baby boy. Becoming a parent, I’ve noticed lots of people (friends, colleagues and strangers) sharing anectdotes about their own parenting experiences. The thing that has shocked me most is how unequally caring for a newborn seems to be shared between the couple. We don’t have any other gay parent friends, so I don’t know if this is different in same-sex partnerships, but amongst straight couples it still seems the norm for the stay at home parent (exclusively mums in our social circle) to do the lion’s share of the work; during the day, in the evening and at night. I keep hearing “well of course if she’s breastfeeding, there’s not much you can do to help” and “well, I have to get up and go to work in the morning”. I find both comments infuriating! My wife is exclusively breastfeeding, and I am now back at work, but the list of things I can contribute towards raising our son is long. I clean and tidy the house, get shopping in, load and unload the dishwasher, change 95% of the nappies when I’m home (including all the night nappy changes), sterilise the breast pump when she expresses...etc etc. I’m up in the night every time the baby cries to change the baby, help my wife into the feeding chair, then later burp the baby and settle him back into his cot. And, like most of our friends and colleagues, I have an office job - I might be tired and incoherent at work occasionally during the day, but I’m not solely responsible for a human life! Unless the working parent drives, operates machinery or cares for others (nurses, teachers etc.) I refuse to believe that they can’t share in the exhaustion too. Very long rant, sorry! I think I’m just a very disappointed feminist to realise that parenthood seemingly transports many women back to be 1950’s. Why are women allowing this to happen, and why aren’t men stepping up more?

Only read first page. But I stayed at home with my 2nd child, co-slept and fed without feeling the need to stir anyone else. Having gone back to work very soon after my 1st child, I knew too well how difficult it was to professionally function properly on broken nights. It was a totally different experience.
I was studying for a masters when my 2nd child was born, and had no problems juggling new baby, school runs, housework and assignments etc. I have no family and had no help, nor did I need any. DH was away 12 hours a day at least, and I felt no need to sanctimoniously ‘share’ the beautiful burden of our new child. People get so hung up on issues of equality, and who does what and when. I have no time for it. You do what’s right for your family.

I had a baby that didn't sleep. 20 minutes two or three times in 24 hours...i got good at the zombie look. Still had to do it all myself. This time is much easier but still don't see why both parents should be up. Tag team i can understand so both get some kip...but pointlessly being awake just because seems, well, pointless to me

It's not like that for everyone. most husband are super happy to help and alternate, they are becoming dads as much as mums are becoming mums. Sometimes mums become feral. That is also true, sometimes the dad just can't he will loose his job the second his eyelid closes. Sometimes in life you do 90 % of a task with 100% of support, it's a two way street.

I think we tie ourselves in knots, trying to argue that both parents can be equal/have equal breaks if breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding is sexist. Only women can do it, and nature doesn't give a stuff about equality. Men can try to redress the imbalance in other ways,, but it's difficult to truly equal long cluster feeds or being up every hour.

But pregnancy isn't equal either, and neither is childbirth. Again, nature doesn't care.

But for many women, what starts off as inequality because of nature (ie boobs), carries on long after the infant years. The mould for the family is set in those first few months for many.

I think it can be avoided by conscious effort not to fall into that trap, but it's hard.

For us, equality from the start was important, so we bottle fed, and alternated nights. No amount of cooking and housework could make up for having 8 hour uninterrupted sleep every other night, to balance out the rough nights. Housework wouldn't have scratched the surface.

Breastfeeding isn't equal, but some don't mind a bit of inequality for the 'greater good'. It's not a feminist issue for someone to choose to breastfeed, but it is a feminist issue to try to push it on to women, given the inherent inequalities it entails. The choice to embrace that should come from the woman alone because she feels its worthwhile.

I breastfed and used a pump so there were bottle, and then after 20 months of breastfeeding, my husband almost exclusively fed my little girl, and my little boy after 24 months. I gave one meal, that was duly prepared by him, and that was his choice, it just happened. At each step you can go forward or backward. It's not because he changed the diapers when they are 1 that you don't see the same women 30 years later doing absolutely everything. I've witnessed it as a child and that got me thinking.

Sleeplikeasloth

You may see being a SAHM as a "trap", but I have found it an amazing opportunity.

Like a PP upthread I have done so many things that I would have not been able to do if I had stayed on the full time working mindset.

I feel beyond blessed that I took a leap of faith and followed my heart.

We did what was right as a family.
And it has worked out brilliantly.

speak out, I don't see it as being a trap. Using being a SAHM as a reason for doing the days, the nights, all the chores, cooking etc, yes I think that is a trap. And it's different choosing to be a SAHM than falling into it by default ( or working but still doing everything/the majority, which we see on here a lot).

Absolutely, it should always be a considered decision rather than default, and wouldn't it be great if more men took paternity leave. But I doubt very much that any due consideration would alter the breakdown of baby care.

I made an active, considered decision to leave my career and become a SAHP. I have occasionally regretted it, but only briefly.

I think had I been younger, I would have made a different decision, though.

Likewise. We have had many different combinations of working patterns over the ears but in essence my being a sahm has in the main allowed us utter flexibility to make the choices that mattered to us. Not using early childcare, home educating, a surprise baby being nothing but joy etc.

I'm nearly 38 so not young now, but have plenty of years left to do all sorts of stuff.

It wasn't like that for me, nor for most people I know. I think you obviously know some women with crap partners/husbands ! My 'dad' did absolutely nothing though from when I was born to when I left home. He's just a rubbish person in general though and probably the reason why I chose a partner and friends who are the polar opposite of him.

During the night though, I see no reason for both parents to be awake especially after mum has recovered from the delivery.

Congratulations on your new baby boy and enjoy him.

The inequities are one of the reasons I divorced. I see it all the time. One of my colleagues took 3 days off recently when his wife was visiting her mother with their baby. He hung out like a single guy all week when he could have used the leave to go away with his family. He’s on leave tomorrow again to attend a sporting event. Their baby is quite challenging and not my business of course but this really strikes me as unfair. He should surely take leave to support his wife who would appear to be finding it all very tough. He genuinely believes he’s one of the good guys , No mistaking it - it’s a man’s world. I I have a new DP now - he’s great and we do split responsibilities equitably .

@Daffodildainty yes! You see it all the time don't you with couples. And often because they are ' bringing home the bacon' the women don't feel like they have a leg to stand on, or they are reminded how they are supported when they complain about anything.

It's also the reason pretty much my own mother devorced my father. Nice man but utterly clueless about child rearing. Apparently he'd just walk away when things got too much with me and my brother (which was pretty much daily)

Surely its up to the women to challenge that behaviour if their other half is a prick? Women can't moan about their blokes being crap if they just accept that as the status quo

I know everyone does it differently but my DH was usually up with me on the night feeds as we had twins who were too tiny to breast feed at first and so took expressed bottle feeds once they were able, but they did both want attention at the same time. from what I can recall the night wake up routine went DH - kettle on make brew for each of us and prepped bottles whilst I did nappy change - both of us feed and have a small cuppa - all 4 of us back to sleep!

ODFO hednesforder.

Mum22Grlz i reckon having both of you up to see to twins is a completely different kettle of fish to both being up for a singleton! I can't imagine managing twins

YABU, since it's up to each couple to decide what works best for them.
FWIW, my Dh was very much an equal parent when our dcs were tiny - he worked ft and I was a sahm. But he actively wanted to share the raising of our dcs and did a great job. However, we split the night feeds so that he got to sleep on the nights where he needed to be up for work the next day and I got three nights where he took over all nighttime care so I could get some sleep. Possibly unusually, when we were born in the 1950's and 1960's, both our dads were just as active in sharing the nighttime care with our mothers, as is our ds with his partner and their newborn.
The thing is, equal doesn't always mean 'the same'-for some parents especially those who ebf, I imagine it's a lot harder to share our nighttime care since the mother will always need to feed the baby, but I imagine in those households, other tasks fall to the male partner.

I think you're totally right OP and mumsnet is usually full of people complaining about this. But people are being defensive on this thread because they think you're implying that same sex couples like yourself are different (although I don't think thats what you are saying).

Yup, yup, yup.

Otherwise we have seven hundred posts of women saying that everything is equal and we can all pack up our feminism and fuck off. I mean, MN might even implode now as apparently men don't actually have to do anything for us all to be equal, just show up and do a normal job for 8 hours (like they managed fine before children) and come home to a wife in a pinny and a meal..

I read 3 pages of comments and feel really uneasy by some of the replies. I think one of the posters hit the nail on the head : can’t imagine a bloke being shot down like this if he wrote a similar post.

I agree with you in parts, from another half of a same sex couple.

Lots of couples I know, the partner / husband does the bare minimum. No nappies, little to no housework, IMO chores aren’t shared equally.

I have 3 children at worked FT for a year and still did as much for my son as possible. (Worked FT when we only had the one child). Me and my partner both worked full time so we had to do things equally round the house and for our son. Eg if he was sick during the night one of us would have to sort him out as we were both in an equal position.

Now we have 3, both work PT and both do equal amounts, if never stops. There were 5 months where we were both pregnant at the same time and working FT at the same time and it became crucial to have things balanced.

Also my partner woke up through the night for the first couple of months BF to keep me company as I was terrified of falling asleep. She was 5/6 months pregnant at the time too.

And good for you having a nursing chair!! Lol I used to love finding a feeding room with a good comfy squishy nursing chair, idyllic.

Sure I’m coming across as sanctimonious as you now (!!) so I’m off to bed 🛏

I’m up in the night every time the baby cries to change the baby, help my wife into the feeding chair, then later burp the baby and settle him back into his cot

Christ.

The first week or two, yes, dh was awake with me when the dc were. But as you settle into a routine it’s completely pointless to have both of you knackered imo.

I wanted dh to be getting full night sleeps so that in the morning I could slump on the sofa with the baby whilst he made coffee, dealt with the other dc and so on. Much more sensible imo.

Haven’t read whole thread

I agree with you OP that some men do shockingly little

However I also agree with the many posters who say you’re going a bit too far the other way and it will only lead to you both being exhausted.

Both being up for every feed is sweet for a few weeks but try it 4-5 months down the line and you may both be snappy and resentful. Better to split feeds so you do an evening bottle and she does the post midnight feed(s).

Spreading the load evenly is important but that does not mean both of you doing everything.

can’t imagine a bloke being shot down like this if he wrote a similar post.

I really disagree - I think if a man wrote a similar post he would be savaged!