To think university snobbery must stop

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I was telling a friend about my nephew who is off to University. I said to her he is off to x uni to study English, she said oh I didn’t even realise that was even a uni. She then went on to emphasise how her daughter is off to a top 20 uni, she went on to say how she wouldn’t have gone if it was not a Russell or 1994 group as she does not think it is worth the debt. I just got the vibe she was looking down on my nephews uni. Aibu to think this sort of snobbery about unis is terrible and needs to stop. My nephew is not the most academic, but surely not everyone is capable of going to a russell group.

@gromance I work at an 'ex-poly' and we ask for extremely high entry requirements across the board. Don't assume non RG doesn't mean academic.

@charlton not true. English graduates are highly desirable. The tend to posses excellent transferable skills. ...as do history and politics graduates.
The graduate labour market is quite bouyant at the moment and around 60% of graduate vacancies don't ask for a particular subject

Many don't get jobs because employers view their university as snobby or as them having been coddled through a degree as long as their parents are paying.
What nonsense.
Employers want the best candidate for the job. They'll make a decision about what matters to them.
To suggest they'd turn a straight A candidate with a 2:1 in a relevant subject down based on purely ridiculous speculation about what their parents might be like is daft.

Degrees may be moderated externally, but there are ways of manipulating this. I have undergraduate degrees from both an ex-poly (I think it's fair to use this term as it didn't become a university until well after 1992!) and a RG university. I think there were significant differences in how we were assessed. For example at the ex-poly:

• given feedback on coursework prior to submission
• narrower curriculum
• textbooks considered acceptable references
• 2/3 sentence answers in exams vs essays
• advised which topics to revise for exams

To the external examiners the quality might look similar, but in practice at the ex-poly we were given so much more help to achieve good grades. I'm now doing a PG qualification at a RG university alongside a number of people who already have the same level qualification from ex-polys. Many of these students have distinctions from their ex-poly, yet are struggling to pass at the RG institution. Whilst there are lots of very able people at less well-regarded universities who will go on to do well in enjoyment, I think there is still often a big difference between supposedly equal qualifications.

If two graduates with the same level of degrees from similar universities, one with CCD and the other with ABB at A level surely the A level grades will be the deciding factor when applying for jobs?

@loni it depends very much on the sector. When I was recruiting staff we asked for a degree as an essential criteria and A levels weren't looked at. What was more important were the skills and experience.

“My brother walked into an accountancy graduate training scheme after his A levels (much to the annoyance of his colleagues). The requirement for a 2:1 there being decided flexible for the right candidate (he still needed AAA at A level though).”

That’s interesting because it’s always been fairly common for people to train in accountancy straight from school- it’s a vocational qualification after all. The big audits often favour graduates from top unis simply because is easier for them to assume they’re smart enough to get through the qualification, which obviously requires some brains.

I think that when people start to realise the courses/institutions that lead to 'proper' graduate roles and that many don't lead anywhere, student population will plummet now that it costs £10's of thousands. I don't know the figures but I do know that a relatively small percentage of jobs require degrees. Most don't.

If he isnt very academic, why is he spending tens of thousands going to university?

I imagine it is because it is the expectation these days, and you are made to feel a failure if you don't do any kind of higher education.

I know of a young man who has jst graduated with a 2.2 in journalism from an ex polytechic (a rather good one though). I'm not sure what his job prospects are.

@gromance where do you get your information from? As it's completely at odds with the information I have which comes from one of the UK's leading experts on data relating to graduate outcomes and graduate employability.

Oh and @gromance the current fee structure has been in place since 2012 and we haven't seen the drop in student numbers that (some) people anticipated. Applications to HE have continued to rise....there was a very small drop this year but that is due to demographics ( not as many 18 year olds around as previous years)

faerie my daughter is academic and she's doing a degree because she can't pursue the career she want without a degree.

My son is not academic and I won't be encouraging him to go. I think it would just be a waste of time and money. I'm hoping other sure what he will do yet though.

I appear to have typed drivel again 🙄

@charlton not true. English graduates are highly desirable. The tend to posses excellent transferable skills. ...as do history and politics graduates.

But, due to the non-vocational nature of the course, they'll need to go out of their way to make themselves stand out when job hunting is the main point I was making: w/ex, internships, etc. Otherwise, an English graduate from an ex-Poly up against an English graduate from a RG university, all other things other than A Level results being equal, will probably come out second best.

But that’s ok, surely? No one can always be the “best” candidate, there is always someone better. It’s about finding your path.

I’m a bit confused about the concern for the journalism graduate and what they’re going to do for a job. Anything surely? What could they not do, is more like it

@lonicera as far as I know, there aren't that many journalism courses around, and very few at red brick universities, so as long as he has good work experience he should be fine.

@charlton again, no necessarily. If the graduate from a RG uni has not gone out of their way to build skills and gain experience but the graduate from the ex-poly has then an employer will pick the latter.
Its important for students of all subjects to gain additional experience and spend their time at university building and developing employability skills.
We need to get away from the idea that simply gaining a degree from a RG will get you a job. In the main, employers have moved away from rewarding that sense of entitlement.

I got AAA at A level. Went to an ex-poly to do English (entry grades CCC) because I wanted to live at home.

My sister also got AAA at A level and went to do English at a RG uni.

I got a 1st. She got a 2:2.

I know we are equally intelligent and hardworking (in fact, I think my soster has the edge on me). The teaching we got and university experience was pretty similar in quality, it’s just that I was among the top if my cohort while she was lower-middle of hers.

I’ll take my 1st any day. Bar Oxbridge, I don’t think a good uni can compensate for a lower grade, or outshine a higher one when it comes to job applications. Grades are easily comparable, universities are not.

Thegreylady s post is rude, and untrue but probably seems true if she lives in a bubble.

I think a lot of the snobbery comes from parents whose children have always shone academically just not being able to accept that a teen who wasn't an A* star student all the way through can actually go to university, do well and benefit from it.

I'm not sure what his job prospects are

What planet are you on? His job prospects are the same as most graduates with a 2.2. Maybe he'll get a very low paid job and build experience that way. Like literally 80% of the population do! He won't have to pay his loan back while he's doing that. Maybe he loved his time at university and made great friends. Maybe he got lots of work experience. Christ.

@jillcrew you are absolutely right. I've spent years working in student recruitment, careers and I'm now an academic researching non traditional students and their HE journey.
The idea that universities let anyone in , that degrees from non RG institutions are worthless and that unless you're an A* students you shouldn't bother is abhorrent to me.
I can say categorically that is incorrect.
For students from a non traditional backgrounds, university can literally transform their lives. I've seen it first hand and I know how hard they work.

I guess that I was thinking that if he wanted to do journalism it would be less easy these days. I didn't mean to sound so dismissive.

Bloody hell. My local authority job requires a degree but doesn't specify which one or where, just that level of education. I, with my English degree from a non-RG, non-ex-poly, ancient university and my post grad certificate from a post-1992, non-ex-poly university (one of the highest for graduate employment), am currently sitting alongside a graduate in law and a graduate in housing studies. Our job has nothing to do with any of these areas.

Once the level of education was established, the positions were filled by our experience and performance at interview. No one gave a shiny shite about where we'd studied,just what we were capable of.

"Once the level of education was established, the positions were filled by our experience and performance at interview. No one gave a shiny shite about where we'd studied,just what we were capable of"

Same where I work. I will repeat this ad nauseum - not all students want to work in law or a big city firm. There is an assumption among some posters on here that it isn't worth getting a degree unless you want to do this or work in a vocational career.