To think university snobbery must stop

[Staceystace]

I was telling a friend about my nephew who is off to University. I said to her he is off to x uni to study English, she said oh I didn’t even realise that was even a uni. She then went on to emphasise how her daughter is off to a top 20 uni, she went on to say how she wouldn’t have gone if it was not a Russell or 1994 group as she does not think it is worth the debt. I just got the vibe she was looking down on my nephews uni. Aibu to think this sort of snobbery about unis is terrible and needs to stop. My nephew is not the most academic, but surely not everyone is capable of going to a russell group.

not all students want to work in law or a big city firm

Exactly. Dd couldn't think of anything worse!

A large proportion of students from my uni end up working for SMEs

What's SME

Small and medium sized enterprises.

I got a first from a former poly. The teaching was excellent. There were no more than 30 in our lectures, frequent one-to-ones with lecturers. Lecturers knew everyone on first name basis. I had great support from my dissertation mentor with meetings every fortnight. Went on fabulous field trips and timetable was pretty full on (so you get the teaching you actually pay for)

Friend went to red brick and got a 2.2. Was only in lectures 8 hours a week HUGE lectures with hundreds of students, no real support from lecturers, she was effectively a number on a page. No meetings or support with dissertation.

Not all they are cracked up to be IME!

And not all students want to work in London either!

Very few actually end up working in London. I've got some great statistics on where graduates go and what they do. Two of the biggest myths are that there are too many graduates and not enough jobs and that everyone buggers off to London. Neither are remotely true!!

I'm sure your right Blaa. I have been on too many higher education threads where parents of extremely able children pooh pooh the idea of anything less than an undergraduate degree from Oxbridge or a high ranking RG university, and they always trot out the "they won't get a job in London/big city firm/law firm" expression. I find it rather tiresome.

@charlton again, no necessarily. If the graduate from a RG uni has not gone out of their way to build skills and gain experience but the graduate from the ex-poly has then an employer will pick the latter.

That's exactly the point I was making. It's the "extra" that makes the difference these days.

I went to York university and studied nursing. I saw plenty of people fail the course and went onto a poly tech and pass the same course no problem, these were people who would make brilliant nurses. I got accept to several universities Chester, Leeds metropolitan, one in Scotland and one in wales but I went for the one that was considered the best. However majority of the people who started the course failed. It was likely those that went to the poly tech university’s got more support. The best doesn’t always mean the best. One of my nursing friends is a qualified OT and graduated from Teesside university.

She said the support she was got was completely different to the lack of support received during her nurse training at York.

grade inflation and grade disparity across universities is a massive issue.

I was in the top 25% of my cohort at Uni and got a 2:1. I'm now an academic in an RG uni and every year we agonize over whether we are going to move our grade boundaries AGAIN in order to keep up with others in the sector, or maintain some semblance academic standards. We already give over 50% of the cohort 1st class degrees.

Its gotten ridiculous....and I can't really believe anybody is seriously trying to use degree classifications to deduce anything meaningful about applicants for jobs. Sooner or later industry will turn on us and we will thoroughly deserve it!

If two graduates with the same level of degrees from similar universities, one with CCD and the other with ABB at A level surely the A level grades will be the deciding factor when applying for jobs? Maybe, but that seems a bit misguided. Given the amount of growing up people do in their late teens and early 20s, it doesn't seem wise to place too much emphasis on achievement 3-4 years ago. And that's before even considering the differing support from school and parents.

@chorlton but that's as it should be. Gaining a degree doesn't ( and shouldn't) guarantee you a job. That's true no matter which university you go to.

A huge issue we have is that middle class students have more social and cultural capital meaning they often find it easier to get better placements and internships.

It also may not be wise to place too much importance on a degree where the students have been taught everything and had their hand held all the way through. This may well be the case where a CCC student gets s first. There are academic courses which require research and self study by the student. These are valuable skills. If students need excessive support and hand holding, are they really the best employees? Many businesses think not which is why the lower tariff universities have the worst employment stats on salaries. The self starters are often better even if they get a 2:1 from a rigorous academic course. Of course employers want employable grads and the academic students need to be wise about what employers want. If they do that, their A levels, degree classification, university and experience puts them in a good position over a CCC applicant who has been Molly coddled to a first from the university of nowhere. What really needs to happen is a cull of degrees and part time qualifications reinstated.

My office only asks for grade not what university you went to. Apparently it's discrimination to do otherwise. Even though universities discriminate in so far as you need specific grades to get on a course.

@bell that's not discrimination

Going back to the original OP and the 'snobbishness ' all I can say is that yes - it is. It is part of the whole 'competitive parent syndrome ' that is particularly prevalent in London and South East amongst the over - privileged.

It begins with the superist- elite Uber Nursery.
Moves on to the most appalling manipulation of the entrance requirements for the 'desired' primary. With people in our area actually renting homes for a year to get into the catchment. Or running themselves into bankruptcy- in order to been seen with dcs at the posh prep (if they failed to get into the aforementioned Primary)

Then we move on to 11+ tutoring and expected secondary... a word of advice... NEVER attend a dinner party with parents of year 4-6 - You will be comatose by desert.

It died down a bit once they finish bragging about which grammar.. (or boarding school if that fails BUT making it sound like that was the plan all along.

You will get a few years respite before they crank up again with competitive exam taking. Our CP's children will ALL be taking 15 GCSE's with expected 9s across the board ..
Followed by a MINIMUM of 4 A-levels in Maths , FM , Super Maths and Maths for clever people. Or maybe an IB (or two).

When you have suffered ALL that because you just have 'normal kids who have really just had a fun childhood and got good grades and gone to a decent Uni.. you will meet the 'Uni Snob'.. who will squeeze her child's RG Uni place into every conversation... enjoy.

It's a peculiar English weirdness- borne I guess if the entrenched class system and a desperate need to look down on someone else.

So what developed country doesn’t have elite universities? None. All the best ones are world ranked and we have even heard of them! The French gave the ultra elite Grand Ecoles and the USA has the Ivy League. Of course it makes a difference on academic courses. Less so on vocational courses. However even then nursing is best done at Cardiff apparently! So even that is RG driven! Every single country has a class that look down from above! The only people who are truly free from this are the aristocracy who will continue to run their estates and the super rich whose off spring don’t need to bother. It’s a fact of life that everyone else scrabbles for the other jobs and it won’t change any time soon. How hard you scrabble, where you scrabble or even if you scrabble at all is up to you.

The poorer universities are under a lot of pressure to look successful. There is no was a degree from the uni of bolton is equivalent to uni of nottingham for instance. Simply not possible, since one takes very capable students the other will take anyone. You are paying the same amount for the privilege though. If mu kids turn out not to highly achieve i will push them towards apprenticeships, not mickey mouse degrees at former poly's/colleges. They arent worth the paper they are written on.

I'm from a poor immigrant background. I went to University in the 80s. It was a "Russell Group " university. You needed great grades to get in. I had a full grant because my parents had little money.
People from the same sort of background as me were also there in abundance.
If that has changed and only posh kids go to "Russell Group" universities, I would be very surprised and assume it is because student loans are putting off people from my background.
Seems all skewed to me.

It hasnt changed. Im also from a low background. They want ability, not money x

If mu kids turn out not to highly achieve i will push them towards apprenticeships, not mickey mouse degrees at former poly's/colleges. They arent worth the paper they are written on

HEAD DESK

Eh?

Post 18 apprenticeships are very difficult to get into. I would say that they are harder than a degree.