school trip

[sunshineNdaisies]

DD is in her final year of primary school here in Scotland and every year they go on a residential trip. I don't want DD to go. DH thinks she should. She's 10, not 11 til end of January.

It's for 5 days, mon-fri at an outdoor education centre. They will be doing things in all weathers like canoeing, abseiling, walks, cycling etc. I've looked up the venue and it's 6 kids to a room, shared toilets/showers, middle of nowhere. The food menu example is all things my DD will hate. No vending machines, no mobile phones allowed, no calls to parents, not allowed to bring own sweets.

It'll be mid November - so very likely to be rainy, cold, windy, lots of midgies.

I know my DD. She's not outdoorsy at all. If there's no food she likes, she wont eat or survive on bread and butter. She will hate the rain, wind etc. She thinks she can take her phone so she can call us - she can't. I can see her being very homesick and upset. Two of the three teachers in charge are teachers that neither DD or myself like. Also, I fully expect my DD to start her periods soon, all the signs are there.

DD says she wants to go but this is because 'all her friends are going'. The cost is £320 and I'd much rather spend this money doing something that DD will actually enjoy, not spending that money only for DD to come home in tears which I'm 99% certain will happen.

DH and his parents think I should let her go for 'the experience' and 'she might end up liking it'. I'm being made to feel like a big baddy.

Also what can I do with DD during that week instead as DH has no annual leave left for us to take her somewhere else.

Our school takes 90 children away for a 5 day residential when they are 9 and 10 years old (year 5 in england) at one of the coldest times of the year. She wants to go so let her. If you didn't let her - you can't just take her out of school. She would be expected to still go to school but sit with another class.

I can understand your concerns OP as all this sounds very much outside your own experience. I am afraid though that I am going to add to the chorus of 'let her go'. Whether your DD enjoys it overall or not, she will learn lots about herself and her ability to cope with new things. Many secondary schools have an outdoorsy trip away for Y7 to bond - that will be much easier for her if she has already had the experience at primary. I also have a colleague in her 30's who wasn't allowed on school outdoor residentials....she is still sad about it now!

Many years ago, I worked as a group leader for a company similar to PGL. No mobiles then, just a payphone. Children were allowed to call home on this if they wished, but often were much more homesick afterwards and would then spread that around the whole dorm. Those previously happy suddenly felt they should be crying too...it really is contagious!

Much better not to have mobiles and live in the moment instead. Any child truly unhappy would be supported, listened to away from the group, Reassured and most likely offered a call home in private.

Re. periods, my DD was forward for age in other aspects and the possibility of her starting was at the back of my mind from the age of 10. Every school trip we chatted about it beforehand, and she always took an extra little toiletries bag with pads, spare pants disposal bags etc inside her suitcase. She practiced sticking the towels onto her pants a couple of times for reassurance and I told her to tell Ms X (female teacher) if she did start. Didn't actually start until this year in the end (age 12), but that bit of planning took the worry away for both of us. This year (sixth ever period), she managed through an earlier thsn expected period by herself on Scout camp (only girl in the group/male leaders) and still did all the activities, except swimming. She was really proud of herself when she got back.

Hope your DD has a fab time. Will also be much warmer in right kit, tracksuit bottoms, for example, not jeans. Budget outdoor brands like Blacks/Decathlon/Peter Storm/Regatta etc for warm fleece layers and outdoor jackets etc. Or borrow from friends/ relatives if you can. I often think clothing made for girls isn't warm enough, even hoodies tend to be cut shorter than boys ....so borrowing or buying few second hand bits can help. She'll be more confident if she's well equipped and the planning and packing is all part of the fun.

Maybe you shouldn’t indulge her so much at home.
She’s 10 not 4 and shouldn’t be dictating diet choices and as for not being “ “outdoorsy” you live in Scotland does she hibernate over winter.
I live in London DH from Ghana and kids do outside things in winter as it’s good for them only person who complains is MIL when she visits which I humour as she’s 80 and has lived whole life in hot country.
You are wrapping your DD up in cotton wool and she won’t thank you for it.

All three of my DCs did a trip like this at the end of primary school. This evening I asked DD1 (she's 23 now) what she now felt about that trip:

• she remembers the trip being pushed incredibly hard by the school. The only alternative was to have a week of what would have felt like punishment lessons in the year below

• no one made new friends, they just ran around in their normal friendship groups. None of them became lifelong friends as a result of the trip

• 10/11 is an odd age. Some are starting puberty, some are still wetting the bed. Some are doing both. Facts they may have preferred to keep private.

• there were no great discoveries of hitherto unrealised passions for abseiling/canoeing/rock climbing. The ones who enjoyed outdoor activities continued to enjoy them, the ones who didnt continued to not enjoy them

So all in all her feeling was meh.

£350 plus clothing which gets wrecked feels like an enormous amount of money for something which the child may not get that much out of. A few years later the same money could be spent on sending the child on a residential trip more attuned to the child's hobbies and interests at an age where the child is ready to enjoy it and get a lot out of it.

The problem is that these whole year trips (which didnt exist at my primary school) get marketed as being 'amazing' and 'life enhancing'. I would be interested to know what the children really thought when asked anonymously rather than through the obligatory trip report/diary where the collective message of 'amazing' has to be maintained.

It annoys me that schools make these trips all but compulsory. Parents are pressured into forking out for them knowing that their kids may well not really enjoy them that much but that going is the least worst option.

We then get told on places like MN that the teachers who go on these trips work incredibly hard looking after the children and are offended that parents arent grateful for their efforts.

I would rather that schools didnt push residential trips like this and left them to companies like PGL out of term time. The teachers could then go home of an evening and get what rest they can. Parents could send their DCs on residential trips when their children were ready to get the most out of them.

As a child I went on a couple of PGL holidays on my own and really enjoyed them. But I was a couple of years older than OP's DD. A year or so later I went on a school Outward Bound residential but I was 14/15 and was ready for it.

There seems to be a lot of pressure to do these trips before children are ready for them. Some will swim but others sink and probably the majority bob along just as before.

Your child sounds like a whinger. You sound like an enabler. Your DH sounds like the sensible person in the family.

One if mine kicked up a right stink before their first school camp, massive tears and drama, the full production. They have ASD and the thought of it terrified them. They had lots of food aversions and 1001 other quirks and issues. Even so we could see this would be good for them so we basically told them to down a cup of concrete and get on with it. Well the kid who left on the bus in a puddle of tears returned on the bus with a huge smile and lots of stories to tell about their great time. They probably didn’t participate in much but they got so much out of just being there.

What you don’t do is decide the child will have a shit time and then reinforce this with the child (who wants to go be with their friends as is perfectly normal). That’s super weird parenting.

My favourite part in this thread is still the horror at the lack a vending machine. Gold. Pure gold.

Just let the poor child go! Either she will hate it (unlikely) and remember not to volunteer for such trips in the future or she will love it and have a life long memory and some fantastic new experiences.

Gnome
I went on a PGL trip in yr6 45 years ago. It was fairly normal back then.

I know a parent who sounds fairly like Op, refused to let her child go because he wasnt allowed mobile etc. She ended up divorced (now heading for 2nd divorce) and lost both dc in their teens because she carried on being controlling and tried to stop one them going on a really life enhancing opportunity.

I haven't rtft, but OP states that DD is in Scotland and in last year of primary. Thus would normally mean P7, when most children are 11 going on 12. So is OP panicking because her child is so much younger than the others?

In my dd's year a few girls chose not to go to P7 camp and really regretted it. My ds's year only one didn't go.

I really worried about DS but he loved it. He really enjoyed the food too. Things I never expected him to eat, he loved.

I remember my p7 trip to Benmore in Scotland.

Really enjoyed it, it snowed continuously all week but nothing stopped us. Teachers told us to layer up and get on with it! I don't remember the food but I know we had all pushed ourselves all day so I'm sure your DD will eat! It's a rite of passage for Scottish kids. I hope she has a great time and you see her in a new light.

Tidy is right - the Scottish intake year runs 1st March to 28 February. So children starting P7 will have been 11 since March, or will be 11 by 28th February. OP's child as an end of January birthday will most definitely be one of the youngest.

Parents of Jan/Feb children have the automatic right to defer their school entry. Had the OP done this, her DD would currently be in P6 as one of the oldest ones rather than in P7 as one of the youngest ones.

But there will more than likely be children in the group who won't be 11 until November/December and OP's child isn't THAT much younger than them.

These sorts of outdoor ed places have school groups of P7 children every week of term. They have seen it all, heard it all, dealt with countless fussy children and their overprotective parents.

When DD went last year it was all the schools in the cluster that went so she got to me people from other school that would be in her classes at high school. This made a huge difference in her confidence about starting high school. She added a few of the girls she met at dalguise to her social media and they made plans to meet up on the induction days

I’m a former outdoor pursuits instructor and a Cub leader. Please let her go! You will be surprised what she can do given the opportunity, professional instruction and coaching and encouragement from her peers. Over the years I have seen so many reluctant children grow in confidence and self esteem before my eyes through outdoor pursuit trips. The activities themselves are almost irrelevant, it’s the confidence built by “feeling the fear and doing it anyway” which will cross over into the rest of her life, as well as the canaraderie with her class mates. What better preparation for high school next year?

The activity centre will be prepared for winter weather, nervous children,fussy eaters (who rarely are when away from home IME) and will take it in their stride. Your DD is by no means unique.

She will certainly stand out if she doesn’t go, and may even dimish in confidence when her classmates return with tales of daring and adventure, even just silly shared experiences which she missed (uurghh..,, do you remember when there was a slug in Sir’s boots... when the sheep stood in the road and Miss had to herd them..... the really “stylish” waterproofs... the delicious chocolate pudding.....). Fatigue due to a outdoor exercise and a mind full of new expletives is the best feeling in the world!

By keeping her home, you are sending the message that you don’t believe she’s as capable as her peers. If you don’t send her on the trip, she will still have to go to school, they will probably put her in with a younger class.

I went on one of these in year 6. It was horrific. I hated sharing a bedroom, I hated not knowing what food we were going to be served, (this was when my mum suffered badly with colitis, so I had never eaten pasta, fish, brown bread, curries, Chinese foods etc because she refused to cook them) I really wasn’t an outdoorsy person. I hated the activities, canoeing, abseiling etc. The only thing I did enjoy was the swimming pool, everything else was awful. (I had also been having my period for 2 or 3 years at that point and I came on whilst I was there)
I really really hated it.
But, it was all my friends talked about for the rest of the year and going up to secondary. I would have been very left out if I hadn’t gone and there were a lot of in-jokes with the teachers that I wouldn’t have understood.
Overall I’d say you should let her go, even if it’s just for the experience and memories.

Went on one of these first year in secondary, I can’t say I enjoyed it all but it did me good being pushed out of my comfort zone. Let her go.

Il ow it’s so hard to
Let go. But it’s our job to fit them up to function in the world over the rough and the smooth bits. It makes get not be her favourite chosen environment, but her life would be much much better for pitching up somewhere, finding it didn’t suit her, and yet finding that having your friends around is what counts. Or that being outside isn’t the worst thing. Or that if you just push through the hard bit you end up enjoying yourself. Wouldn’t you love her to learn that?
Or she might end up learning that 5 days in hell ends eventually, that not enjoying herself 24/7 doesn’t kill her. Which means she can engage with a much broader range of things on her life after that.
It’s hard for you, but if it means giving her more scope , you’d be holding her back not to.

OP I think the consensus here is overwhelming but I felt I had to share my own experience with you: 20-odd years on I still resent my mum for not sending me on the P6 residential. I'd never been away from home and she thought the activities sounded dangerous and she was worried I'd have an asthma attack. Staying behind was shit and it was only 3 or 4 weirdos who did. We had to help out with the year below and the special education class for the week, knowing our year were off abseiling and kayaking. It was definitely the wrong call.

I went on the P7 residential and had the time of my life. Let her go. Anything that she doesn't like, she won't be the only one. There will be camaraderie over the food, the beds, the teachers. She'll come back with a huge confidence boost.

@GnomeDePlume

Great summary. I speak as a very outdoorsy, ex army, adventure training type.

I went on a trip like this. I was 14 though. I had an awful time. BUT I learned a great life lesson from it, which I am grateful for.

On day 1, one of my friends started bullying another girl by saying she wasn't allowed share the room with us (us being all the other girls, leaving this one girl in a room by herself). I stood up for this girl, and overruled my friend. So all sorted there, the other girl was now in our room , and not by herself.

So, then my friend wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the trip, and managed to convince my other friend not to talk to me either. I didn't particularly get on with the girl I stood up for, so didn't enjoy her company that much either. So basically, I was totally alone for the whole trip.

Every activity we did was torture. Everyone was in their groups, and I didn't fit in with anyone. Iv never felt so alone. The phone reception was non existent as well , so I couldn't even message / call anyone for company.

I tried to make the best of it- started hanging out with other groups a bit. But still didn't really fit in. And the food was shit , and I was freezing cold. Miserable.

When we got home , one of the supervisors (a parent of a child not involved in the drama) spoke to my mum , and told her I was amazing and incredible for standing up for the poor girl being bullied. And that my mum should be very proud of me!!

It sounds bad, but in the end , I'm so glad it happened! It gave me the push I needed to end the friendship with the bully. And I had a big heart to heart with the other girl who ignored me (we are best friends still).

I am proud of myself...but the following year when the bully tried to befriend me again and get me to go on the next trip with her, I said no and stayed home instead

All these years later, and I still remember this trip in every detail. Says something. If I was you, I would let her go, she needs these life lessons on how to cope on her own. Chances are, she will actually really enjoy it anyways !

She'll eat when she sees her friends eating and enjoying the food, she'll be too busy to miss her phone, and it's time she learnt to put sheets on a bed. If she's accident prone, she's just as likely to break something at home. She'll be utterly miserable being on her own thinking about her friends enjoying themselves. Let her go.

I think she needs to go, if only to get away from a self-obsessed mother. If you can't cope with this, good luck for the next few years, you sound remarkably selfish, it's not all about you. She can't change her bedding, that's your fault, not her's, I would bet good money that she does nothing for herself.

She will never forgive you if you don’t let her go. (I’m 47 and still resent having missed out on my school outward bound trip.)

It will be all her friends talk about for weeks before and months after. My daughters’s school did a residential farm trip in year 5. Up at 6:30am in January shovelling cow shit, no gloves allowed for hygiene reasons. They loved it and pretty much every child named it as their favourite experience in their end of yr6 year book. Even if she hates the food and hates the activities she’ll have a great time because it’s a week living with her best mates. Please, please don’t make her miss out.

Please let her go ...my daughter had her year 6 residential a couple of years ago now and she loved it! ...And she was exactly the same as you've describe your daughter, she just wanted to go because her friends were going. She was a fussy eater but survived whilst there and even discovered new foods that she loved, she wasn't outdoorsy at all but gave the activities ago and was really proud of herself for trying things she'd never usually even consider. It gave her a new found confidence, she would have been so upset not to have gone...and yes at most of these places they are expected to make their own beds, but guess what when left to deal with these things you'll probably find your daughter is more than capable when she knows she has to do it and mum isn't going to come in and do it for her! She'll deal with the wet, the cold and everything else that is thrown at her, staff at these places are amazing and have a real knack of encouraging participation and making it fun! They know how to deal with upset or homesick children, it sounds like it's your issue not hers, don't hold her back because she will remember not going and not trying it more than she'll remember going and possibly not liking it, then when they get back a lot of activities are focused around the trip they've been on, all her friends will be talking about what they did there and your daughter will be left out, LET HER GO SHE'LL BE FINE!

Hmm. OP hasn’t heard what she wanted to and has now disappeared. Just let her go OP and allow her to grow up it’s not all about you

Your attitude will hold her back in life. She will always remember that you didn’t let her go and have an amazing experience because you didn’t think she could do it. Even if she goes and doesn’t like it, she’ll know you believe in her.

Also it might be good for her to try new food. She’s getting to an age where not being pandered to for her fussiness is a good thing,