To want an apology from my cheating SIL?

[GoEasyOnMe]

I’m going to try and keep the details as brief as possible as this has a long history...

DB and SIL been married c10 years with 2 DC 9 and 7. I have always struggled to understand their relationship as I don’t believe she pulls her weight and from I see, openly speaks unkindly to my DB. My parents supported them and gave them substantial deposit for house, set SIL with job and have generally been at their beck and call. SIL never shown gratitude. DB takes all financial burden and does all housework (I’m not kidding, dishes, hoovering, bathroom, dusting etc) but mainly as he has slight ocd. SIL almost every weekend would spend one full day out with friends shopping or catching up with girlfriends. Often would be out overnight at short notice. I want to be clear here...I absolutely think she has the right to have down time and nights out but the balance is very wrong and DB left holding kiddies.

18 months ago, my DB found out she had been cheating. Not once but over a period of years and with different men. She also rung up debts as had a gambling addiction he wasn’t aware of. She moved out and they kept civil for kids while he pretty much had a mental breakdown. He went into therapy and took a real hard look at how they ended up there.

SIL also laid bare everything and admitted she hadn’t liked herself for a long time (terrible relationship with her own DP) and wanted to face her demons. She also went into therapy on her own...and they did couples therapy.

Meanwhile, myself, DH and DP picked up the pieces with DC.s as best we could and supported DB. It has been a traumatic period for us all!

After the counselling and a lot of work, they have decided to make a go of it. This thread isn’t about his decision...I don’t understand it but have to support his choice. And in fairness, SIL does seem to have had a wake up call and done a lot of changing.

However, as a couple, they now seem to expect everyone to pick up where we left off. It’s my Aunts 60th in November and the first time we will be seeing her since it all happened. I have asked DB if we can have a chat with her beforehand and perhaps clear the air. I’m not talking all at once but feel she should sit with my parents and then myself and talk through it all. My DP have seen her since through childcare but the conversation has wholly revolved around kids, errands and schedules etc.

I don’t want to rake over the whole affair but I do think myself and DP are owed an apology at least and perhaps commitment that things will be different from now on. My DB disagrees and says he was the hurt party and he’s forgiven her so that should be the end of it. It’s not a matter of needing our forgiveness (we respect my DB and will support him whatever), it’s more that we were hurt, we were also let down and we had to put our lives on hold to support him...therefore she owes us an apology too.

AIBU at this event to be civil to her but not fully engage until we get a 121 conversation with an apology and a promise of things change?

If you’ve made it this far, thank you!

Big hairy pants on!! My goodness. Big girl pants... only occasionally do I wear big hairy pants

I know what you’re saying. I come from a very big and very close family. We spend a lot of time together. Partners / kids...... go on holidays, meals, look after each other’s kids all the time etc.

If we put my family through a tough time because of our relationship problems I’d apologise and thank my family for all their help and support and I’d expect my DH to do the same 😘.

Firstly, he either has OCD or he doesn't.

Also, it's not your marriage, she hasn't cheated on you, you helped with the kids out of love for DB. Of course you aren't owed an apology.

Is she part if a gambling support group? I just wonder if she is getting support. You going shopping with her is not the support she needs.

I am sorry about your brothers OCD. I had that as a teen and have a version of it now. It's not easy, could he use this as a chance to get help for himself with that?

For those saying this is none of your business OP. Your brother has made it your business with his unreasonable demands on you and your parents. I'm not saying he is wrong to get back with her, his choice but I agree with whoever said he does not want her to feel the affects of what she has done.

YABU! Jesus.

Gosh not at all. She doesn't owe you an apology and it seems she's suffered too. Sorry but you really think she needs to apologise to you? For what?

You seem way too invested in another adults life. As an aside, when people do this they're often avoiding something themselves.

Good grief. This is not about you. She’s a woman with problems and her marriage to you me DB is a private matter. You giving support as a family member does not give you any right to make demands, decisions or conditions. Your DB is staying with her so your only job is to help that not become hell with your behaviour. If you can only be polite then so be it but I say this again, none of it is about you.

@Italiangreyhound I'm not sure tbh. I know she's in therapy but haven't asked specifically what kind. I've sort of let my DB tell me things as he wants rather than digging so not entirely sure.

Yes DB has therapy in his 20s for it as it seemed to come about from stress at uni. It mainly centres on germs and has some perchlorate habits, he won't reach into a crisp packet to get a crisp at work for example as germs on fingers from keyboard so he pushes them up why in the packet and eats them straight from the bag with his mouth! He has is pretty much under control now and can eat out. He also realises he has to let some things go due to kids so isn't obsessively cleaning at home but dirty dishes make him queasy! It flared up again with everything going on but seems again to be under control

You me = your

OP, what do you feel would happen if you said to your brother that you don't want to see her (your SIL) because of the hurt she'd caused your brother? What do you think he would do?

As I said earlier, if I was in your position (and have been in a similar one, tbh) then I just avoid the person I don't like.

I do think it's unrealistic to expect to pick up where you left off (because there is a reason you left off, let's be honest!) and I don't see why you won't tell your brother that. Why does he need everyone to collude with him?

My advice would be the same whatever the relationship btw disclaimer

YABVU Your DB is right.

YABU and quite ridiculous, their marriage is little to none of your business! Your brother is entitled to give it a second go without the whole family throwing in their two pence worth! Respect his wishes.

You're not entitled to or owed any apology. This is not your business. You do get to decide on your future relationship with your SIL though, that is your business.

I'd try and come up with a better prefix than cheating-SIL though, she's a person, she's in your family by dint of marriage to your brother and like it or not, he has forgiven her and they are back to where they were. Be civil and don't let your personal feelings allow you to overstep the boundaries.

I don't think you're owed an apology so much as perhaps an acknowledgement that you were affected by this mess, and that your support was helpful.

It seems your DB has no insight into how his marriage has, and will, affect people close to this relationship.

Asking for an apology from SIL is showing that you judge her behaviour as being wrong and puts DB on the defensive, but if you try telling DB how you felt, the effect on your life, then maybe you might find he shows a bit more understanding and appreciation of you.

Make it about you, not about her.

@HelenUrth I think you're right and I've decided to speak to my DB tonight about it (following on from his request I repair the friendship with SIL).

He's just very caught up on how it's affected him (and rightly so!) that he's not considered everyone else. My DH and I cancelled our holiday plans, lost our deposit and instead took out DN's away for a week to give them time to themselves once we realised they wanted to make a go of it (my DB asked and was very thankful).

It's things like that which I think he probably just doesn't realise the wider impact it's had. I don't expect an apology, having read people's opinions) and I'm not even sure I'll get an acknowledgement from her...which is fine.
But I think I just need to push back on the enforced friendship my DB is trying to fix. Thanks

I disagree with what seems to be the general concensus here, I think you are right to expect an apology - but you won’t get one. I have been in your shoes, many times over, and the casual return of the bastard (now NC) BIL was so difficult to withstand, honestly. My sis would be absolutely useless every time he lost control of himself, she’d be totally broken for weeks and unable to look after the kids, which he would ditch every few months without a backwards glance. There were drugs, one night stands, affairs, various crimes, he’d disappear for a few weeks leaving a mess behind, which me and my DPs would clear up, but then we’re all expected to carry on regardless once he swaggers back trough the door like some kind of loveable rogue. Comforting heartbroken kids while their mum is ‘finding themselves’ is enough to deserve a sit down conversation, you’ve done a lot. I realise you did it because you live your brother and not under any kind of condition, but in order to realistically move forward, she surely must apologise?? Sorry to pretty much every other pp, but when you’ve had to pick up after someone else’s shitstorm, and seen the trauma they’ve caused, especially to your beloved DNs, then yeah I expect a little remorse. Or just don’t talk to me, that’s an option too. I don’t think OP is outrageous for not being comfortable with her SIL after what she did to her DB and DNs, am I understanding it right that she left the home and subsequently he was having some kind of mental breakdown, and you and your parents supported him and their kids through it? Yes, so seeing as her behaviour was the direct cause, I do think she needs to apologise. The thing with asking your parents for money too, cheeky fuckery of the highest order. So not only is she wanting to be welcomed back into the fold, but without apologising to the people hurt (not just the DB was hurt here), and wants to borrow money just to top it off. I’d be having very little to do with her, and unfortunately your DB must understand why. If he doesn’t, there’s not much you can do, it isn’t fair to pressure you into being all pally with her after all she’s done. Yes, I realise she did it to OP’s brother, but the whole family coped with the aftershocks. Everyone saying the money is also not OPs business, I totally disagree again. If someone tried taking advantage of my DM like that I would be disgusted, and have something to say about it too.

Have you heard of the drama triangle, OP? It's really helpful for determining if you're playing a role in a dysfunctional relationship.

The key is not to be any of the roles. Don't be a rescuer "sigh, I suppose I should go out shopping with her for DBs benefit" that's a martyr role.

Don't be an aggressor "she needs to sit down with my parents and I and give us all an apology".

Don't be a victim "it really was hard for us picking up all of the pieces and now she wants thousands of pounds from our parents."

Don't be any of those things.

Just to say to DB that you will support him and hopefully the relationship between you and your SIL will rebuild in time, but right now you won't be going shopping with her.

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"My DH and I cancelled our holiday plans, lost our deposit and instead took out DN's away for a week to give them time to themselves once we realised they wanted to make a go of it (my DB asked and was very thankful)."

See this is rescuer.

@theWarOnPeace ☺️Thank you. You have far more articulately summed up the ongoing drama of this relationship and it's impact... she did leave the home although he offered to, as she needed time to deal with her demons. In fairness, she always continued helping with the kids and has always tried to do the best for them. But over the years has done almost all of what you describe your BIL doing aside from crime (that I'm aware of). I just don't want to alienate my brother. I won't be asking for an apology, nor expecting one-I just know if I had caused DH's family upset or inconvenienced then, I would absolutely sit with them, apologies and acknowledge what had happened and as far as DB is concerned, she doesn't intend to do this.

I will speak to DB about the pally stuff he expects but attempt to leave everything else...

@anywhichwaybuttruth That diagram is really interesting and I think since the upset we've all played a part in each of those roles.

It's so difficult when it's someone you love though who's asking for help, not to play the rescuer. I've never forced it or taken over but when he has asked (such as holiday) we've helped.

I'll try and keep this in mind going forwards but it's just so tough

It's obvious you're hurt on your brother's behalf but it happened to him, not to you, she owes you nothing. Don't insert yourself into their marriage.
If he's forgiven her then you have to suck it up and follow his wishes.

I don't think it's unreasonable to explain to your DB that the events of the last 18 months have had a big impact on you and the rest of the family and that you can't just switch that off and go back to BAU. They've had time to work through their issues and rebuild their relationship and you will need the same. She doesn't owe you an apology, but you don't owe her a clean slate either. You have the right to be wary that this could all blow up again.
It doesn't sound as if she's someone you would want in your life if it wasn't for the relationship with your brother - I don't get the impression you'd be friends naturally?

You can be friendly without making the emotional and time investment of being friends. It's perfectly possible to be civil and chatty at a surface level to keep the peace, without engaging to the extent that your brother is asking for. That will take time if it comes at all.

Your brother is a grown adult. You don't have to socialise with his wife for his benefit.

Start saying no.