AIBU to think my 13yo step daughter should apologise to DH and me for having a party while we were on holiday?

[HelenK73]

DSD lives with her mum but spends 3 nights with us a week. We have a 17 month old and went on holiday with my mum but DSD didn't come. She only lives a few doors away from us so as she has keys we asked her to feed the fish and water plants while we were away. My DH was worried about this as he had doubts she could be trusted (she's gone off the rails a bit since starting secondary school) but i thought we should extend the trust and see. So we got a phone call while away to say fish had died. She was really upset so I felt really sorry for her. When we got back. The keys for the house were left in the front door and it became clear something had happened while we were away. There had obviously been a clean up operation but there was still stains on upstairs carpet. Also signs that people had been in our bedroom, mop and broom totally ruined, watering can smashed in, kitchen counter top trim missing, half a bottle of expensive gin drunk and 2 bottles of slow gin, pictures my dd did at nursery trampled on. Tv was on MTV at volume 100 so neighbours must have been disturbed. DSD came round in the morning and admitted to having a few people round, who then invited more people and it all got out of hand. I didn't say anything as wanted to leave it to her dad to deal with. She was due to stay with us that night so DH tried talking to her by asking what happened to the kitchen work top trim. He was met with a really surly response and when he suggested she should look for it in the bin he got a resounding no he could do it himself and he was making her angry. She then stormed out and stayed at her mums. The next day i messaged her mum to say what happened and ask if she could shed any light on what had gone on while we were awau as apparently DSD had asked her to help kick people out. The response was "what do you think happened?" so i told her what i knew and asked if we could chat about it. She replied that DSD had already been punished by being made to clean up and that she was dealing with it and DH could call her when he was ready. So my reply was that i thought DSD should be accountable to us for her actions and that i would still like to talk about it. I said that it was my things that had been trashed or taken so DSD should go some way to making amends for that and showing some remorse. I have yet to receive a response and that was 24 hours ago. So AIBU to expect an apology and to have some interaction about this. DH is scared of pushing DSD away but I think that leaves us open to being treated like doormats. Also I think she should reimburse for things taken and apologise to the neighbours.

I would be careful.

If you think the Mum is using this to pull her away from you - she may very well turn around and say you supplied the alcohol if this blows out of proportion - I wouldn't contact other kids parents until you have dealt with the one that lives under your roof.

Is it "we", or is it you that tries to speak to her Mum, though?

You put her and your house at risk, luckily it was the house that got it. She could have had the house stormed by older Teens and been sexually assaulted etc.

Your DH needs to get his head out of his arse and speak to her Mum, not through her, no wonder she is having issues, that's way too much to put on a child.

She was probably scared, thankfully she called her Mum.

You can't trust Teenagers, you hvae to be the one in charge, it gives them confidence and a backout, by being able to say that they can't do something.

To give a child who is having social issues keys to your empty house is ridiculous, wtf, were you thinking? When I went away and my children stayed with my Mum, my Mum got the keys, not my children.

Your DH needs to start to see her for what she is, a sacred, insecure, hormonal mess.

Start forming a plan between you all, before it's too late.

You can’t ground her or stop her watching tv etc if she just retreats to her mum’s. But you can stop any treats, outings, or any favours she receives from you. If she ends up pulling away from you that’s not necessarily a bad thing - she sounds like a nightmare and potentially psychopathic if she murders small animals.

It's madness to go to her friend's mum's house OP. Don't.

""I do know where one of her friends lives that was here and have met her mum a few times so i am considering heading round there to get some answers""

Is this person definitely a good friend? This could open her up to more ridicule.

Seriously, your DH needs to open up the lines of communication with her Mum.

What happens during Family therapy?

BigBlueBubble , you think that it's OK for a person's child to not have contact with a Parent? Psychopaths are made, not born. Killing fish, isn't seen as being a part of that. Which is why we don't look at anglers with horror, when we see them in parks.

If your DH and his ex are having counselling with your dad, then I think this is exactly the sort of issues that needs to be brought up.

Both as to why a 13yo was left alone to have a party at your house (Not at her mum if you notice....)
And how to foster a sense of RESPONSIBILITY and RESPECT towards everyone around her. So not just you or your DH tu everyone else (aka her mum, her friends, teachers etc...)

I would really encourage you and Your DH to look at the big picture.
The issue here isn’t about things been damaged, not even abiut the fish. It’s about trust, the one she has for yu but also the one you have for her. It’s about responsibility for your own actions. And respecting other people and their boundaries.
That won’t be encouraged by punishing her or demanding that she says sorry (which she will do at the end but so meaning a word of it iyswim)

What on earth would that achieve? Alienate your dsd by humiliating her with her friends? Yeah, that'll go well for the future

Your dh should be stepping up here, you just seem on a mission to make things worse.

This isn’t fishing though - it’s a pet that lives in the house. And it wasn’t fished for food, it was killed for kicks. Which is entirely different and extremely worrying.

Yes I think it’s fine for a parent not to see a child if the child is a nightmare who damages the home and causes problems. OP has her own child to think about and DSD sounds dangerously off the rails. I’d be cutting contact between DSD and my own DC.

She is clearly quite vulnerable at the moment so I would suggest inviting her over, give her a hug and ask her calmly to talk you through what happened (the whole thing, not just what happened to the broken stuff).

Validate that she must have felt frightened and out of control when all the other people turned up and things started getting broken.

Reinforce that it wasn't OK to invite people into your shared house without your knowledge or permission because of the risks of it being uncontrolled and this these risks are as much about her as the 'stuff' which got broken.

Put in some consequences for this happening but sounds like she had a nasty shock to the system so she probably already knows that she majorly fucked up and feels like a bit of a twat about it, both with you and the kids at school.

If it then appears that she hasn't learned, you can put in place extra boundaries / consequences but agree these in advance with mother and her. Come at it from the angle of protection rather than punishment.

Just to say (because it's often trotted out on here and it makes my teeth itch), the 'killing small animals is an indicator of psychopathy' is a massive over simplification of some incredibly complex issues rather than fact.

It's the sort of thing that is said in True Crime Weekly magazines or TV shows, or in books about serial killers.

It's not as simple as that in real life, so killing a goldfish (has OP even said that it happened at the party or that it was the DSD?) does not mean she's going to start a lifelong career of violent crime.

The fish could have been an accident though. I think overfeeding can kill them? Something to do with rotting food in the tank can be toxic for them. So SD could have just been a bit lazy, thinking instead of feeding them daily she’ll just tip it all in.

Whilst I understand why your SD had the party as she saw the opportunity to look cool and perhaps strengthen friendships at school. As sad as reasoning behind this is doesn’t mean she shouldn’t suffer the consequences.

I’m sure SD’s mother feels in a awkward position, her DD has done this awful thing and I’m sure she’s livid with her but given the therapy and difficulties with school I imagine she’s wanting to soften the blow....not right at all but I do understand it.

SD needs some very clear boundaries and if EXW and your DH are on good enough terms to be going to therapy with SD then they are on good enough terms to come up with a set of rules that apply at both houses to provide some consistency for SD.

As for punishment if this if the first serious offence and this was my DD I’d go along the route of making DD feeling disappointed in herself that she had let down herself and those around her with the trust and responsibility that she had been given. That it would a long time before she was given such freedom/responsibility again and that she would have to work to earn back the trust she had broken. This would be along with some extra chores and restrictions for a set period of time.

As Step Mother you have to follow the lead of what punishments her parents set and all I would do is let her know that while you love her, will always love her etc your upset and disappointed with her just now.

Tough situation for you OP, I don’t envy it.

That's very true, @POPholditdown fish can be killed by over feeding. It's actually a delicate balance and possibly too much responsibility for a 13 year old on her own.

I notice the OP is avoiding the question about why her DSD didn't go on holiday with them. My DSis has a DSS and he's never been excluded from family holidays.

The problem i have is that anything we say to her or try to punish her with she can just say no and retreat to her mum's.

She doesn't need to be punished. That isn't going to help you or her. It's pointless. If she came from a background where there were clear boundaries and clear known consequences then, yes, I would say absolutely enforce the consequence. That would make her feel secure and help her minimise the risk taking behaviour that all teenagers are susceptible to.

But she doesn't have that loving parental care that much is obvious. Her default is to run away from her mistakes. You need to try and help her change that by showing her through words and actions that everyone makes mistakes. This is the resilience you mentioned. She doesn't have that and she won't achieve it by being shamed and belittled.

You can still be firm and you can still ask her to think of ways that she can show you and her dad that inside she does actually feel sorry. But you won't get that from her if you accuse, blame and insist on certain words and actions. She needs to feel safe to allow herself to show her vulnerability and that won't happen any other way than using some kindness and forgiveness.

You were daft to give a 13year old children keys to your house who you describe as going off the rails, did you exclude her from this holiday you haven’t answered that question?

is it possible her mother is behind at least part of the incident. ie leaving the key in the door etc.

I think what happened was entirely predictable.

She suffers from anxiety. She attends family therapy . . . and you think you're best placed to tell everyone else how to communicate.

As a PP said, you're not building resilience by harshly imposing boundaries on an anxious child with friendship issues and a family that is in therapy.

And now you're thinking of going to her friend's house for 'answers' ? All that would achieve is alienating her from her friends, and cracking all the family relationships even further. You're just being silly now.

I can so easily see how this could happen with 13 year old. I can see how the whole thing could happen and how the mum just dealt with the immediate problem and then left your house.

I think the 13 year old definitely owes you an apology and some sort of reparation, btu the big problem is that her parents need to be the ones to sort it. Your husband needs to put his big boy pants on and have a meeting with the child and mother to sort it.

As an idea dh could sit down with dd and talk to her about this never happening again how violated you felt when you came home and saw the family home had been abused. He needs to ask her why she did it, and then to write a full and frank apology to you.

As a family she must help you all clear up and make things better. Then draw line under the episode (don't bring it up again) but don't trust her again with your house or possessions. She does not have a key for the time being.

Her mother is clearly out to sabotage the relationship you have with her, your home and anything else within her power. What an awful situation for you all to be in.

Continue to be the grown ups, continue to place boundaries around yoru Sd when she is with you but make sure your home is a welcoming, fun and lovely place to be the rest of the time. Include her in your days out, holidays and family time so that she sees she has a great deal to lose by not following rules.

Of course that is assuming you want her in your lives, and are not using this all as an excuse to get shot of her.

I second the question about the holiday, maybe she is feeling rejected and hurt op. You need to address this to.

and then must write the full and frank apology to you

So you didn't invite her on holiday but had the cheek to ask her to house sit for you, sounds like apologies are needed all round tbh.

yeah, not taking her on holiday part is a question that needs answering

Take the keys off her for starters, she really can't be trusted. In future only have her in the house when you are there to supervise. If she/you DP don't like it tough, she has to earn trust.