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Original poster

To be disgusted by this crowdfunder

211 replies

Spinderelle · 30/08/2018 05:46

Alex Salmond has launched a crowdfunder to fund his judicial review as he stands accused of sexual crimes against two women.

The man is a millionaire.

In 24 hours his cult like followers have given him £50,000. I don’t know what’s worse. People who can’t afford it donating money to a millionaire celebrity, or to an accused sex offender.

OP posts:
SaltyPeanut · 30/08/2018 13:01

@NewGrandad Of course, you are correct but it's not quite the same is it. I doubt if most of us could get anybody to donate even one pound to our non famous selves in similar circumstances. He is using his wealth and fame to assist in gaining financial donations for something the rest of us would have to fund ourselves. I stand by my opinion but I take your point.

BackinTimeforTea · 30/08/2018 13:18

false allegations of 40%, that's against what % of rapes overall are reported? So even if we took the shockingly high 40% of rape allegations turn out to be false (false includes not proven?), a vastly bigger number of rapes are totally unreported.

And that's not even including broader harassment.

Twotailed · 30/08/2018 13:21

@Northernparent68 Well this research conducted for the Home Office suggests that the rate is around 4%:

<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100408125722/www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100408125722/www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf

I would be very interested in any study you've found which puts the rate ten times higher than that.

businessModel · 30/08/2018 14:28

I'm confused as to what people are angry about.

  1. Are they suggesting that men need to defend themselves against spurious charges from their own pocket because they're #straightwhitemen

  2. that legal aid should be means tested

  3. that AS is guilty because some random poster on an anonymous forum thinks he was smarmy

  4. that all accused are guilty because #stats (?)

Biologifemini · 30/08/2018 14:33

This is awful. Obviously nothing has been proved and he has every right to strongly defend himself.
But to crowdfund for his legal fees? That is grubby and quite agressive. He has gone right down in my estimation. Nicola s will manage this well as she is an excellent politician.

BoneyBackJefferson · 30/08/2018 15:59

Biologifemini

From what I can see he isn't bothering to defend himself he is going after the governments investigatory body/policy and trying to completely derail the allegations.

Motheroffourdragons · 30/08/2018 16:01

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BoneyBackJefferson · 30/08/2018 16:52

Motheroffourdragons
Or is it not just trying to get the process changed so people accused can get some information about what they are accused of?

Politicians of all parties are very good at making seem like they are doing something for the good of others, when they are really just protecting themselves.

But then I am very much of the opinion of
How can you tell if a politician is lying?
Their lips are moving.

BackinTimeforTea · 30/08/2018 17:02

I tend to agree boney, if this really was about altruism he could have either launched this before, or after the allegations were dealt with.

Motheroffourdragons · 30/08/2018 17:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

OliviaStabler · 30/08/2018 18:20

Alex Salmond is well able to defend himself as this media campaign shows.

Maybe, but even if found innocent he will always, in the minds of some, be guilty as they think 'no smoke without fire'. His reputation will be permanently tarnished.

Finlaggan · 30/08/2018 19:16

S0uper agree with everything you've said.

Jux · 30/08/2018 20:33

Wow, how low can you sink? Well, not quite as low as Alex Salmond. I have met some scum in my lifetime, but this takes the biscuit. Mind you, I'm not that surprised.

Happityhap · 31/08/2018 11:22

How is he to defend himself if he has no detail of the allegations?
Can it really be an effective process if an investigation proceeds without the accused person being given this information?
If so, why have a process at all? Why not pass it straight to the police?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 31/08/2018 12:40

In my opinion, anyone who has donated to this crowdfunder is stating, unequivocally, that they do NOT believe these women, and that they care more about the cult of Salmond than about violence towards women.

Dh's response to the story was to say we should donate a substantial sum to a domestic violence charity (I believe Nicola Sturgeon is promoting one) - he is going to make the actual donation, as he is a taxpayer so can gift aid it.

Gersemi · 31/08/2018 12:49

In my opinion, anyone who has donated to this crowdfunder is stating, unequivocally, that they do NOT believe these women

Why? They could equally well be donating in support of the principle that the allegations need to be investigated properly and fairly, with Salmond being given proper information as to the evidence against him. Acting as devil's advocate here, if it really is the case that he hasn't been given that information, the procedure breaks all normal rules for such cases and flies directly in the face of basic principles of natural justice and fairness - which would make any findings pretty valueless anyway.

CripsSandwiches · 31/08/2018 12:53

businessModel

You seem to be missing the point. No one is saying he shouldn't be entitled to the same legal aid as anyone else. What he is leveraging his fame so that the general public can provide him (a millionaire) with better legal aid than anyone else. This has upset people. What has further upset people (and you can see why if you read the comments on the crowd funding page) is that his campaign is fuelled by a general feeling of automatic distrust for women who make accusations, especially those against powerful men.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 31/08/2018 13:00

The allegations are, and were, being investigated properly and fairly. Why should Salmond be treated differently than any other member of his party? It is my understanding that these allegations have been investigated strictly according to the SNP's policy and guidelines on such matters.

I doubt the SNP would formulate a policy for the investigation of sexual misconduct/assault allegations that did not include talking to the person who carried out any alleged attack/misconduct - nor one that did not do all it could to ensure that all parties were talked to in a timely manner. Obviously the complainant/s would be spoken to first, but then the person accused should be spoken to as soon as possible. If the SNP's investigation did not ensure this, I am sure Salmond would have said so. But he hasn't - and that leads me to assume that he wants special treatment, and is pitching a fit because he's not getting it.

And we have only Salmond's word for it, that he has not been given the proper information.

Gersemi · 31/08/2018 13:23

Speaking to Salmond by way of initial investigations into the complaints is clearly not the same as giving him full details of the allegations and evidence against him.

If the SNP's rules provide for a fair procedure in accordance with the principles of natural justice, Salmond's application won't get beyond first base. However, we don't know that to be the case, and if Salmond hasn't been given details of the evidence against him, on the face of it it is not a fair procedure. If this were another member of the SNP being accused of a different offence, would we be so quick to assume that their rules must be impeccable?

BakedBeans47 · 31/08/2018 13:24

And we have only Salmond's word for it, that he has not been given the proper information

Yep

Fraying · 31/08/2018 17:13

The SNP haven't investigated him. There were no complaints to the SNP.

The Scottish Government received the complaints and their new complaints process was used to investigate them.

I think if there are any queries about the legitimacy of the process then it's better that they are investigated and resolved as soon as possible. It will help women if the Scot Gov's complaints process is as robust as possible. And that includes identifying and stemming any leaks like the ones that meant these accusations were splashed across the Daily Record in such detail.

kaytee87 · 31/08/2018 17:17

He's a scum bag but this has even surprised me.

I'll donate to Glasgow woman's aid tonight.

Anyone else?

kaytee87 · 31/08/2018 17:22

www.glasgowwomensaid.org.uk/Donate-now.html

Happityhap · 31/08/2018 17:32

It is my understanding that these allegations have been investigated strictly according to the SNP's policy and guidelines on such matters.

It is not the SNP's policy and guidelines that have been used, as there has been no complaint to the SNP party.

It is the Scottish civil service's policy and guidelines.

AnoukSpirit · 31/08/2018 17:40

Our legal system does not determine innocence, it simply gauges whether the particular people called to assess the evidence gathered and arguments put forward by another set of people believe that it proves a criminal standard of guilt.

It's not about the truth. And it's not about innocence.

Plenty of guilty people are never even brought to court. That doesn't magically change reality to render them any less guilty.

The criminal legal system is only relevant to the state determining whether it has a right to be able to legally punish a person, it has absolutely nothing to do with determining the truth of things.

The human construct of a legal system doesn't change the truth. People who go on about "proven innocent" and all the rest are ignorant.