AIBU to think dd shouldn't find out she's in learning support base first lesson b.t.school?

[inashizzle]

Dd is going into yr 8. She went online to look at her timetable and was quite shocked that she will be in learning support base for maths. She was even more angry that it will be with her class tutor that she really does not like.

So Aibu to think a meeting between head of year/senco(who I've never spoken to) would have been appropriate. Bad enough that she found out online 5 days before start school. Had she not, she'd have found out at school, even worse and would've been twice as shocked and upset!

She is under Sen. So shouldn't there be a clear explanation as to why? Don't schools get extra funding for each Sen child? Can you see why I'm confused, not having a definite explanation . I have asked. No answer.

In my experience schools don't tend to waste good teachers on Lower sets, the shitter or "inexperienced" teachers are lumbered with the bottom sets, otherwise it's an ever changing line up of supply many of whom aren't subject specialists.

Don't schools get extra funding for each Sen child?

No, they don’t, unless that child has an EHCP.

If your DD refuses to read, it does sound as if she could be masking something like dyslexia. What are her spelling and writing like? Some schools are able to offer online dyslexia assessments, it might be worth looking into whether that's a possibility.

Schools get a notional £6000 a year delegated funding for each child with SEN. I know that it doesn't work out as that in practice, but it would be untrue to say they get no funding.

I'm open to getting her a tutor. I've not don't this so far because she is so very stubborn with this area. It's like, no way attitude and whisky I don't like to indulge stubborn, I also see that I can make it an even bigger resistance to learning.

Mine have disliked doing extra in areas where they have been struggling -which is very hard to deal with but with time and patience and bribary usually accept doing something and it gets easier as they make progress.

I've had similar issues with schools being very poor with communications and not very helpful when pressed for answers.

I have found the educational boards on here very useful though.

I'd suggest a tutor, if possible to figure out areas of weakness, and look at some on the on-line maths sites then get something done every day and an e-mail to the school to see if you can get any more information out of them.

Who told you she was under sen? The school? What did they say in the letter?

Schools get a notional £6000 a year delegated funding for each child with SEN

This suggests that schools with more pupils with SEN get more funding, which isn’t true, according to this blog headteachersroundtable.wordpress.com/2017/01/20/every-school-has-different-challenges-united-by-funding-pressures-vic-goddard-vicgoddard/

The advise I've got o here has been brill. I've taken the YABU on board. I have explained to her that if she does not put attempts in to work, she will have to keep doing the basics anyway, is felt before that extra work at home after a day of it for her was too much and know she could really dig her heels in.
I know the schools are under pressure and havnt gone dictating special treatment....they know she hates a red flag above her so I'd've thought someone would've kept me informed. To any posters thinking she's got her attitude from me, I back the teachers with discipline, rules all the way. She's never heard me undermine their teaching. I just need specific questions and answers from senco on where to go

Gersemi, it's more complex that that and varies by LA but schools get around 5-15% on top of basic funding for what is regarded as a notional SEN budget, this budget is expected to be used to cover up the the first £6000 of additional costs for a child with SEND and there are no top ups available unless the costs go above this (and even then it is a battle).

It is not ring-fenced though and it isn't based on profile of the children in the school so when there schools with proportionally more children with additional needs then that same sized pot needs to stretch further and schools with fewer students with additional needs can use the money in their general budget.

It's a bit of a myth that children with SEND always come with extra money attached, that is a long way from true.

(I may not have that perfectly correct, there seem to be plenty of quirks in the system but I think it is broadly correct, I'd welcome correction from those who know better).

Maybe I've missed something here but there seems to be 2 issues:

1. That a child who has been struggling in maths has been placed in a class next year where they will get additional support in the learning support unit
2. That your child is angry and upset the class is with a teacher she doesnt like.

They are 2 issues that (in my opinion) need separating.
As a teacher I think them putting timetables online before term is a ridiculous idea (because all it will do is create a queue of parents whining about timetables and sets and teachers for the PD day. Believe it or not there are a sizable minority who seem to think they have the final say on what class their child is in. The ones that male me laugh the most is when they're fuming their child has been moved down a set... in a key stage/subject that doesn't set!)

As a parent you have every right to contact school and ask for a better picture of what is going on with your child's education. I know you say going from bottom set to learning support isn't a natural step in your opinion, but it is if she is struggling. Sets aren't done to make people feel better about themselves. There is a bell curve. Everyone is somewhere on it. Her strengths, weaknesses and intervention are a discussion to be had calmly with school & a plan moving forwards.

The second issue is your child's reaction to a teacher she doesnt like. I'm afraid she needs to suck it up. Teaching isn't a cult of personality and every term I get handfuls of calls asking for class changes because of 'personality clashes'. You have to work with and get on with people you might not like that much. That's life and you don't get to change classes because you have a strop about who's on your timetable.

Maybe I've missed something here

You have, dyslexic children hernally have very low self esteem, they are generally bright kids.

To drop a child from her set to the very bottom set without warning can make their self esteem unbearable.

They aren't stupid, but because they can't physically prove their knowledge in a typical fashion, i.e. Written, so teachers don't have 'evidence' they drop them like hot potatoes in to sub classes.

Fighting to get them out is almost impossible

I'm not fuming that she's been moved down- it could be a blessing in the long run . I would've thought the school give reason for learning support base.

She is angry. She says the reason that she hasn't improved is because the last teacher did not 'teach her'. She has quite often said 'they think I'm stupid'. I'm not naive to think she has worked her socks off, but let's face it, at 12 how many kids are going to go , right I need to work religiously to prove I can do this and if there is something, how constantly despondent must they feel.

She may be right about 'not teaching her' She needs a different approach

I would expect letters or contact for mid year group changes. Start of a new year I wouldn't expect contact home.

You seem quite reasonable OP. It would be right to have a chat with the school.

I'm always very wary of claims 'I did badly because X didn't teach me'. I've seen it happen where classes have not done well due to the teacher, but they are out numbered by the claims from disgruntled studnet that everything is the teacher's fault, teacher doesn't like them, teacher thinks I'm stupid etc.

If it helps, the chat I normally have with students who start the 'but the teacher doesn't teach/doesn't like me tends to go down these routes:

• if i looked in your book would i see evidence of a student whi is struggling or a student who is being lazy and obstructive?

• You say the teacher doesn't like you. What would Miss/Sir gain by not liking you? What enhaces their life by not liking you? There's 30 other children in the room and you say they pick on you? What does that look like? (Usual replies - always asking me questions, telling me to redo work, always nagging me)

• ok, so if we look in your book you've studied ... ... ... so you have been taught stuff
• what do you find easy/difficukt in Maths/Science?

Now i know we all have off days so if basic expectations are students behave appropriately for learning and work to the best of their ability, can you confidently tell me you meet expectations 90% of the time? Ok, you see now we're getting somewhwre because you think miss/Sir is having a go at you, but should they need to remind you to write in pen and show your working? Would they tell you to turn around or focus if you were meeting expectations?

From my perspective this is getting a bit out of proportion. I see a student who wants to do well and a teacher who wants you to do well. We're all agreed on the outcome. What needs to happen is you don't give miss/Sir an opportunity to nag you (and if they hate you as much as you say then having notjing for them to nag you about is probably going to annoy them, yes?)

I love how people who have never seen the OP dd can feel they can make vast assumptions about how her dd has NO SEN

Actually what people are saying is that it might not be due to a SEN, and my point particularly, is the school may be aware of other things that are holding a child back. It is very disadvantageous to tell / expect children are average or above average in all areas because that is not how children naturally are. A weakness in one area is not a definitive sign of a SEN.

Yes maisypops. I know it's in the teacher's best interests to teach and well. My dd's other main trait is that she sees things in black and white and then can't think around it. I could explain to her until the cows come home and end up getting firm- she herself is blunt. She either likes or dislikes someone and whilst she'll never be a walkover, it can limit her.

I wouldn't expect them to know her inside out, hope very much that the lsb will give her confidence, there's definitely huge gaps.

I want to do my best by her and wish someone would just simply send me list of what school will do, how we can help to facilitate and cross off/tick boxes as we go. Tall order, but at least we'd be clear.

OP you said you found out at the end of last year that she was in bottom set maths and now obviously learning support.
What set did you think she was in? What sets is she in for other subjects?

but let's face it, at 12 how many kids are going to go , right I need to work religiously to prove I can do this

most of them.

You seem to be excusing some very poor attitudes and behaviour from your DD

I want to do my best by her and wish someone would just simply send me list of what school will do, how we can help to facilitate and cross off/tick boxes as we go.

the school almost certainly provides this. Have you looked on their website?

That blog is really odd as the headteacher doesn't actually say whether his school gets Element 2 SEN funding or not; it may be explained by the fact that the school is an academy, and some academy owners are, shall we say, less good at passing on funding to schools than others. This is a more detailed explanation of SEN funding - schoolsweek.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Sen.pdf

Sorry, I should have made it clear I was talking about the blog linked by noblegiraffe.

Dd is going into yr 8. She went online to look at her timetable and was quite shocked that she will be in learning support base for maths.
But she was in the bottom set last year. This should not be a shock.

She was even more angry that it will be with her class tutor that she really does not like.
No one gets to choose who their teachers are and you need to make that clear to her. Being angry at having a particular teacher is not an appropriate reaction. Yes, she might not like all the teachers, but that's tough.

So Aibu to think a meeting between head of year/senco(who I've never spoken to) would have been appropriate.
For what? Getting extra support for a subject she already knows she's weak at? Do you really think that the HOY/SENCO have time for meetings with the parents of every child in the bottom sets and getting extra support? You should be pleased that she will be getting the help she clearly needs.

Bad enough that she found out online 5 days before start school. Had she not, she'd have found out at school, even worse and would've been twice as shocked and upset!
Um.... that's how people normally find out what classes they're in?

I genuinely think you are being massively unreasonable, and encouraging your daughter to feel the same. There's nothing in your post that makes me think the school have done anything wrong at all.

Okay, having read more of the thread. I'm happy to see OP, that you've taken on board quite a lot of what's been said.

I do think it would be perfectly reasonable to arrange to see her maths/form teacher some time in the first couple of weeks of term to ask what support it would be helpful for you to give your daughter to work alongside them and to ask for more regular communication about any concerns as they arise.