AIBU to think dd shouldn't find out she's in learning support base first lesson b.t.school?

[inashizzle]

Dd is going into yr 8. She went online to look at her timetable and was quite shocked that she will be in learning support base for maths. She was even more angry that it will be with her class tutor that she really does not like.

So Aibu to think a meeting between head of year/senco(who I've never spoken to) would have been appropriate. Bad enough that she found out online 5 days before start school. Had she not, she'd have found out at school, even worse and would've been twice as shocked and upset!

@inashizzle

That's why I wrote the point about time frame in my post; ask what the learning trajectory should be (and for the regular reports/feedback - which can be really simple). That way everyone is clear that in six weeks, or eight weeks everything will be reviewed and you can all sit down and see if it is working or not. If it is not, you need another intervention and you yourself then have evidence that demonstrates you need an Education Psychologist involved.

It also give you time to get an EP involved if you can do so privately.

But, I will say, i do think things can be done now without her having a label, children need support who don't have any diagnosis - so push for this (with Base, extra work each week, ask what else) first.

Your claim that you think your dd “goes unnoticed” is a little jarring when you are so up in arms at the fact that they’ve put measures in place to help her?
What on earth do you want from the school? Leaving the self esteem thing out, because failing won’t help her self esteem one whit...

If you're willing to pay the school to arrange an assessment, it would probably be better to arrange your own. Contact the Dyslexia Association to be referred to suitable educational psychologists

don't do ANY assessments without the guidance of the school.

Or you could pay thousands, and the school disregard it completely.

Honestly, I've worked in schools where there have been whole filing cabinets full of "private" assessments, all ignored totally

many are from "professionals" considered by the school to be inaccurate/ unskilled/ disreputable even corrupt. ( as in will take the parent;s money, then produce a report saying what ever the parent wants it to say)

many were not, but the sheer volume of private assessments that can come pouring in just make it impractical to expect they will even be read.

Just on the assessments - have you had hearing and sight checked recently?

Just to say I agree with Matte about this not necessarily being a special needs issue. There are lots of people who are 'rubbish at maths' or 'can't spell for toffee'. Lots of v academic adults are cackhanded at practical tasks.

She's nearly 13? I think if there had been a specific disability for which there is a specific educational remedy, it would have been evident before now. Perhaps she's slipped through the net - it does happen - but from what you say it does sound more like a weakness than a neurological disability.

I taught the bottom GCSE stream for many years, including all those with Special Needs, but also others with ESL or who for one reason or another needed extra help in a smaller group. Only 1 or 2 out of a group of 12 would have 1-1 in general subjects. Ed Psychs are v expensive and thin on the ground. Often, it's just a question of observing them in class, not giving them a full array of tests. I doubt if your dd would reach the criteria. I knew that one of my pupils had foetal alcohol syndrome and an IQ of 70, but it didn't change the way I taught her.

It might make you feel better, no stone unturned, but not necessarily her, if she doesn't want to feel different. The best course of action, and certainly the first, is to ask advice about work you can do together at home to back up what she does in class.

Wow, I didn't mean unnoticed in the sense of give all the attention to my child lamagrey.
I do expect some kind of communication from their side, and I won't budge from that. My dd has a right to be able to access the curriculum. If she's not able to, surely working with the school would achieve this more effectively. See it another way- some posters say I have not done enough . I would be preventing a meltdown, a better start to the year and getting a better explanation for her.
If the school can call me on other things i.e. attendance matters(which is 98%) before that's jumped on, I think they should email outlining what was going to happen .

Like I said, communication was thick and fast when my other dd was one of the high achievers. We have a right to be in the know. What is the pastoral care, head of year etc there for then?!

Also at least they’re trying to help your daughter get better at maths if they weren’t giving her the help then you would be on here complaining about how the school doesn’t care about your daughters education.

Clairetree1, it's not just a question of whether the school will pay attention to a private educational psychology report, it can be helpful in other ways, for example advising on support to be given outside school, and indeed potentially supporting an application for an EHC needs assessment if appropriate, and any necessary tribunal appeal.

Professionals registered with the Health and Care Professions Council and endorsed by organisations such as the Dyslexia Association are usually pretty reliable.

Her sight is fine. She has always strongly disliked reading . She says it blurs. She says overlays don't help. This has happened since she could read. She now refuses to read out loud to me or in class. She has poor working memory. Her hearing is fine too. But she consistently gets the wrong end of the stick. She is likeable but if I had a penny for every time she's been called quirky or bizarre , which is great but dosnt help with teaching. Massively easily distracted, but not a trouble maker .

OP I think you are getting a hard time here. My DS has been treated the same

Dyslexic children are able to hide their disability and mask their problems. Each child has a ceiling, some aren't diagnosed until late teens.
Teachers aren't given any information re special education needs during their training and may not spot a dyslexics child labelling them naughty or day dreamers or even thick.

Generally they have low self esteem. And to move them down is a real kick in the teeth and yes school should've spoken to you to prepare you to help her.

Unfortunately it's schools who do the assements, it's a 20 minuet computer based program. Ed Pys can be asked for a referral, but you have to push for one. They should set this in motion but may take a year to happen.

Then they should put strategies in place to help.

Irlens syndrome - ask you optician before you pay big money for a test, it's not a recognised 'issue' some opticians have the machines and do the test for free. If you want to go down that route.

Speak to the dyslexia association.

Read some of the books

Try Neasy.com maths program - it's good -

Good luck - it's pity we have to fight for their right to access the basic curriculum with people who have no idea what's available

The move to Learning Support should have been presented as a positive move to help your daughter back into the mainstream maths sets. I’m assuming that the ratio of staff to pupils is higher so that they could get to the bottom of her difficulties. Can she move back into the mainstream sets during the year if the extra support pays dividends?

Online timetables are fairly usual now. I'm used to having around a week before school hearing groans and or cheers as they find out which teachers they have.

Surely if she has self-esteem problems then making a fuss and contacting you to explain would make it seem much worse. If you approach it with a "that's good, they'll be able to help you get on much better" attitude then she'll be positive about it and work better with them.
If you approach it with a "oh heck, learning support, I didn't know she was that bad. They really should have called me to discuss it" which seems to be the current attitude then it'll mark in her mind as something shameful and she will not get the best out of it.

Can you clarify - is she in an actual learning support group for maths or is she in a low set which happens to be located in a classroom in the support base?

Op - see what I wrote about timetables being finalised at the last moment. Why have they waited till now to put the pupils' tts on-line? It's quite possible that some unfortunate member of the SLT has been juggling with staffing the maths dept right up to the wire, especially since you know one member of staff has left and maths is a high shortage subject.

Don't be too quick to blame the school for not keeping you informed. It may well be beyond their control in these troubled times.

I love how people who have never seen the OP dd can feel they can make vast assumptions about how her dd has NO SEN etc...
You were able to put that diagnosis how???

I also love how teachers, with no training in child psychology, think they can just ignore diagnosis from specialists too..... even though they need to be licensed therefore have to pass exams etc... to be properly qualified.

With all due respect Thymeout it is very likely an issue may have been missed. My dd was as a hugh perfirmer but dropped balls (metaphorically). The organisation got the better of her in Yr 11. She masked well. She was predicted 6/5 A/A. In year 11 she started cutting and taking small overdoses. She got 3A, 6A, 2B. There was significant underlying anxiety and depression by Yr 12. CAMHS closed her case offering nothing. School had never raised the tiniest concern. She was never any bother to them but her bother turned inward.

We had to engage a private consultant psychiatrist to get her the support she needed. If we had not done that I am quite sure the mh issues would not have been dealt with, her self esteem would have plummetted and she would have dropped out of school.

However over a 7 month period she had therapy, AD's, assessments for ASD/ADD/ADHD. She was diagnosed with some mild ASD traits (not enough for diagnosis) but she did have ADD. So many things dropped into place. She started an upward trajectory in Yr 13. She still needed counselling and continues to take AD's but now has the strategies she needs to manage her conditions and has recovered.

Her 6th form (a new school were brilliant). She has had a gap year this year after getting 3A*s at A'Level and starts at a very famous Oxbridge College next month.

She is was provided with the means to fulfil her potential because her parents facilitated it. Such children may be 1 of several hundred to you, to their families they are everything. Please don't minimise. Mothers know their dc better than any teacher or nurse ever can.

Go well OP

We can only go on what Op has told us. Go back and read her original post.

She has had no interaction with a Senco in the past. She does not seem to present difficulties across the curriculum. Being in the learning support base does not mean she has a neurological disability. If she does, it will be more likely that it will be addressed there, because in a mainstream class there can be multiple reasons why pupils aren't doing well and most of them relate to other factors.

I have read all the op's posts thank you thymeout.

Neither did my dd have anything to do with senco. Did you not read my post very carefully perhaps?

By the way, did you mean to be so rude or did you think you were addressing one of your pupils? Do please consider that ypu can't simply instruct other adults because in an adult to adult capacity it's about negotiation rather than tacit authority and actually you can't instruct other adults what to do. That also extends to the teacher/parent relationship and I think those relationships might be better if all teachers had cognizance of it.

But the school are helping your dd to exercise her right to access the curriculum
What do you imagine supported learning to be, exactly?

I don't really understand this.

Why is your child under senco but you've never met with them? Normally the senco rep goes into class, observes thr child, then formulates a plan for that child. Has this occurred?

It's difficult to understand really.

V glad to hear about your dd, Nip. Not sure that anything similar is happening here, but, if it is, there is a better chance that it will be identified in a small group. I'd hope that psychiatric problems such as you describe would have been taken very seriously at my school, tho' identifying the cause would have been beyond their expertise. It is a scandal that there is such a long waiting list for Ed Psych intervention.

Nip. I was replying to Hermione. Cross-posted with you. Twice.

If you think she might be dyslexic - IMO it is worth paying for a private assessment. Then based on that you can pay for ongoing support session (outside of school) which will help her with coping strategies.

In my school the SenCo wouldn’t know who your child was unless she’d been identified with SEN, by primary school, the current staff or by parents. It sounds like to me someone in the maths faculty has flagged up her lack of progress and suggested she have an intervention of some sort - that’s more or less the same as what she’d get with a formal diagnosis. It sounds like they have noticed her issues - you may find you get contacted when she starts term as currently there won’t be any teaching staff in.

Also, in general, there seems to be a huge overestimation on MN on what EdPsycs can actually do. I know they’re highly qualified and I have some insight into that training but I’m also aware that a lot of what they do practically is state the bleeding obvious. Classic from one of ours “she might just be an attention seeker” - yeah great thanks.

Dds father can not write at all. He can read, but quite he too has got wrong end of stick where he's missed context info out. He's above average intelligence . Eldest dd is at Uni. She flew through g.c.s.e as she didn't have to revise much, (well didn't anyway- just couldn't manage concentration). A levels were a nightmare as her organisation skills, attention to detail and concentration are chronically bad. Luckily she was able to do diploma and got the required grades. She struggles tremendously with time (has to get a taxi to work etc). For the youngest dd, she hasn't got a gifted ability that will get her by and so whilst grades are not everything, it's s long time being at school hating most lessons.