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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do you believe Women can't have penises?

888 replies

loveyouradvice · 28/08/2018 14:36

Just that really.... inspired by the recent sticker campaign.... "Women can't have penises" and "Some women have penises"....

Simple question - simple answer.

Me - Yes, I believe women can't have penises.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
DodoPatrol · 29/08/2018 11:12

What do you want to achieve from this aside from being goady?

Honestly? A return to segregation (or classification) by sex, where there was good reason for it before. Personal care, shared accommodation, sports, medicine etc

An absence of division by gender, where there was no good reason for it.

AmyRhodes · 29/08/2018 11:14

Get a life people.

Worry about your own dick or fanny and no one else's.

🙄

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 29/08/2018 11:16

Worry about your own dick or fanny and no one else's.

I'd love to.

Until men with fetishes started getting their cocks out and pretending they were ladies, which meant the women or girls that were threatened by said dicks were them considered bigots for doing so.

Such happy days. It would be fab if men just stopped doing it.

AnEPleaseBob · 29/08/2018 11:22

Worry about your own dick or fanny and no one else's

Well we're not all as short sighted and selfish as you are. If you don't care where men are forcing their dicks where they are not wanted, that's up to you. you will one day though.

SandraTheBee · 29/08/2018 11:24

Men are obsessed with other people's dicks and fannys and where they can put their own - therein lies the problem.

paintedwingsandgiantrings · 29/08/2018 11:25

Worry about your own dick or fanny and no one else's

Most of us on this site are parents. We worry about our children's welfare and safety.

When I was a teenage girl, I was harassed EVERY FUCKING DAY on the street by pervy men. Some just said things. That made me uncomfortable. Some tried to make me go off with them. That put me into a difficult situation as some of them didn't know how to take no for an answer and I was ill equipped to know how to protect myself. One tried to drag me into his car. That was terrifying. I was sexually assaulted on a bus. That was not only terrifying but depressing as I told the bus driver what had just happened and he didn't care.

This started when I was 13.

I worried about this harassment on the street and in pubic places. But I didn't need to worry about it in toilets or places where I would be undressed e.g. changing rooms. I don't want my DD to have to put up with creepy male-bodied people in places she's vulnerable.

So, you just worry about yourself if that suits you. But we're parents here, it's our job to worry about the effect of changes to the law on the next generation.

SandraTheBee · 29/08/2018 11:30

My daughters face constant harassment by males when they are out and about. That is one of the realities of being female.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 29/08/2018 11:32

Worry about your own dick or fanny and no one else's

Having lost the genetic lottery and been born with XX chromosomes and a vagina/vulva, etc. I've learned that I have to worry about dicks. In fact I can't walk the streets without worrying about dicks. I choose where I live on the basis that it is safe from dicks and I live a life of constant background wariness. I'd love to stop worrying about dicks, but until they stop coveting women's 'fannies' then that is impossible. That includes 'ladycock' by the way.

AmyRhodes · 29/08/2018 11:35

I'm not being drawn into a debate here because I can hear many of you are frightened, and you can't reason rationally when you're frightened.

But I will say this: trans people are getting the shit kicked out of them far more often than they are sneaking into ladies changing rooms and being deviant.

Discussion like this is creating more victims of violence than the "trans fetishists" you fear so much are.

If you're worried about your children, I'd worry about the more likely possibility that they might themselves be a trans person and one day be on the wrong end this fucking bile.

Original poster
loveyouradvice · 29/08/2018 11:38

Yet again accusing us of hatred... Amy where is "this fucking bile"? I think you need to look more closely at the language and discussion from women and compare it to that from transgender activists... and then decide where the bile is, unless you sadly are already too blinkered.

Absolutely Lizzy got it in one....

I'm guessing the OP (a) is, like many of us, worried about the notion that penis-holders want to have access to women's and girls' spaces, sports, etc and (b) is concerned that some people keep trying to shut down any discussion of those worries by saying either that it's "hateful" to discuss those worries or that it's been "done to death".

OP posts:
tillytop · 29/08/2018 11:39

If you don't care where men are forcing their dicks where they are not wanted, that's up to you. You will one day though. The first part of this comment shows no consideration for the assault and rape victims who may be reading. The second part is as threatening and obnoxious as some of the TRA's.

BertrandRussell · 29/08/2018 11:39

trans people are getting the shit kicked out of them far more often than they are sneaking into ladies changing rooms and being deviant"
Two things here. Could you give some examples of trans people getting the shit kicked out of them?

And are you interested in the issues that aren't bathroom related? Because everyone agrees that there are reasonably easy fixes for any potential loo problems, but nobody wants to talk about the problems that aren't so easily fixed. Girl's/women's sport, for instance.

AnEPleaseBob · 29/08/2018 11:43

The first part of this comment shows no consideration for the assault and rape victims who may be reading. The second part is as threatening and obnoxious as some of the TRA's

Fuck off. I'm one of them and thats why I said it. How fucking DARE you?

Italiangreyhound · 29/08/2018 11:45

paintedwingsandgiantrings I am so sorry.

AmyRhodes "I'm not being drawn into a debate here..." Does that mean you are not going to engage? Why not, it may be helpful.

Yes, I am scared of my privacy and dignity and my free speech. And I've never been aggressive, or horrible to any trans person ever, nor do I intend to, ever.

No one here wants trans people to be attacked. Why isn't violence towards trans people being tacked?

"If you're worried about your children, I'd worry about the more likely possibility that they might themselves be a trans person and one day be on the wrong end this fucking bile."

Many people here have children identifying as trans so I am guessing that many people here are worried and scared for a wide variety of reasons.

The fact you don't think trans issues might affect any of us personally shows you are seeing us as 'other'. Not part of this debate. I don't think that is genuine.

We are not physically attacking anyone, or inciting violence, we are asking for polite debate. Are you suggesting men who are responsible for the vast, vast majority of all violence against women, and trans people, and each other, really need to read about this debate on Mumsnet in order to be able to go out and commit violence?

We need to tackle male pattern violence in our society. Against anyone. Allowing any man who wishes to to identify as a woman is not going to make women or genuine trans people any safer, quite the opposite.

Italiangreyhound · 29/08/2018 11:47

tackled

SandraTheBee · 29/08/2018 11:47

amy I am very sorry and sickened by anyone who gets the shit kicked out of them because they are different. it is wrong and should be punished every time.

However no man has the right to tell me what it means to be female and invade female spaces.

If a man feels wrong in himself, feels unhappy with the person he is then he needs to adress that without inflicting his issues on women. It is not my issue that a man doesn't want to be a man. He doesn't get to define who i am just because he is unhappy with who he is.

postcardsfrom · 29/08/2018 11:48

Amen, AmyRhodes.

BarrackerBarmer · 29/08/2018 11:49

Not only do women not have a penis, they do not have
Testicles
Prostate
Y chromosomes

And anyone who does is a man or a boy.

This remains true and factual whether I believe it or not. The facts are material. My belief is immaterial.

Original poster
loveyouradvice · 29/08/2018 11:49

This so bears repeating....

If a man feels wrong in himself, feels unhappy with the person he is then he needs to adress that without inflicting his issues on women. It is not my issue that a man doesn't want to be a man. He doesn't get to define who i am just because he is unhappy with who he is.

That's absolutely it....

OP posts:
BossWitch · 29/08/2018 11:53

If a man feels wrong in himself, feels unhappy with the person he is then he needs to adress that without inflicting his issues on women. It is not my issue that a man doesn't want to be a man. He doesn't get to define who i am just because he is unhappy with who he is.

Yes. Yes yes yes.

But our society expects women to solve men's problems. We are expected to facilitate male happiness and success at the expense of our own. That is, I believe, one of the roots of this problem.

tillytop · 29/08/2018 11:58

AnEPleaseBob Yes, I dare and I stand by what I said. Your comment was inciting hatred, was offensive to me as a victim, and will no doubt be picked up and used against our cause by TRA.

AnEPleaseBob · 29/08/2018 12:02

It was not in anyway inciting hatred, ffs. Keep your hyperbolic nonsense for yourself and don't ever presume to speak on behalf of me or anyone else.

BarrackerBarmer · 29/08/2018 12:05

"you can't reason rationally"

...from someone who believes that 'trans' is an actual, rational, unassailable and biological state of being, rather than whst it truthfully is: a word used to describe people who desperately wish they were not the sex they actually are and who demand that others validate their wishes?

To be rational you need to be able to reason.

What is a woman? How can one 'identify as' a concept if that concept has no definition to identify with?

What are the characteristics of 'woman' that can be observed in a human with a penis, testicles and XY chromosomes who claims he is one?

How can such a claim be given validity and differentiated from other spurious and false claims such as 'I am Prime Minister' 'I am a helicopter' 'I am a wombat'?

The way to prove or disprove a claim is to measure it against characteristics.

Woman is as material and meaningful a concept as prime minister, helicopter and wombat.

It's as easy to refute a false claim to womanhood as it is a false claim to wombathood.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 29/08/2018 12:09

Yes, there are men who will kick the shit out of men who don't conform to masculinity. There are men who beat and rape women. There's probably quite a compelling overlap between these men.

The answer is not to force women to accept more men in their spaces and to leave the male violence in place.

toothtruth · 29/08/2018 12:09

I do think a woman could have a penis. I dont think its up to me to decide what gender or even what sex someone else is.
HOWEVER I do think there should be some external bodies checking the validity of claims around 'being woman' so that predatory men cannot claim to be trans to access female only spaces like refuges.
I also think that regardless of what you call yourself, if you have a vagina and traditionally female reproductive system you WILL face a certain type of oppression... and I do worry about what language will be used to discuss that and campaign about it if the word woman alone now incorporates those with a penis.