Do you believe Women can't have penises?

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really.... inspired by the recent sticker campaign.... "Women can't have penises" and "Some women have penises"....

Simple question - simple answer.

Me - Yes, I believe women can't have penises.

pear surely it's not about the physical penis? It's that the penis belongs to a man and even if he's had it taken off and insists that everyone calls him Maureen and gets hair extensions, he's still basically, at a very important level , a man.

Not sure why you felt the need to inform the Internet of you masturbation habits peartree but anyway. .

Ha, ha! I don't think a thread on mumsnet is the whole of the internet yet. My point was that you can't control what people think.

for many transpeople, the entire point is making other people (especially women) validate their own view of their gender identity, and it's a common theme that many MTF will declare that they don't want their own facilities, they want the women's facilities.

Good point and I have absolutely no problem in supporting campaigns for trans- spaces. Although as I previously pointed out, once you start expanding the prison estate, for example, to accommodate trans prisoners, and the hospital and care home estate likewise, people might find the tax bill unacceptable. And I have no problem in saying to transwomen, you are not women and can't come here. My point is that 'here', for ME (it's an opinion, it's subjective) doesn't include some of the spaces that other people would include. I am allowed to think this, you know, it doesn't make me naive or bad. !

Besides in the trade we call it "shecock"

;-)

The thing about penises is that they are attached to men, and the statistics demonstrate that the overwhelming majority of sex-based and violent crime is committed by biological men, regardless of the gender persona they adopt.

It probably isn't generally possible to tell whether any individual man poses a risk, and nobody is saying that all men/transwomen pose a risk to women. But someone with their penis out in a female-only space a) undeniably belongs to the sex class which commits the vast majority of sexual crime, and b) clearly does not abide by boundaries presented by facilities with sex-segregated exemptions, which could well raise questions about their other boundaries with respect to women /girls and their bodies.

For clarity (cough, cough) for Green Party/non-blue/non-yellow/non-red members; non-men have non-penises 👍

Also do check your MN account settings after posting on this thread as it would make for a canny list for someone somewhere (not accusing the OP just our non-friends who lurk about)

@RatRolyPoly

Not really Bertrand. TWAW because "woman" is an expression of identity; a combination of how someone identifies themselves and how we identify them. The most important of these is how they identify themselves. And frankly there is no better way to know how someone identifies themselves than them telling you. Easy.

Wrong.

And woman hating.

And dehumanizing.

Women are not "an expression of an identity". They are human beings. Female ones.

FFS

I think it was Billy Bragg who said something about blacklists.

As for RatRolyPoly and her dismissive just book another smear, women already have to jump through enough hoops to have medical issues taken seriously and now you want to add yet another hurdle just to appease men? Lovely.

No they can't as there is no such thing as penises.

There is no such thing as a 'she-cock' dannytrans1969.

Notable that Rat and the usual flag wavers for TW are women have been deafeningly silent on the threads about Bradley and Challenor.

have been raped, and yet I don't find naked men traumatic. The penis is not an inherently threatening thing for ME. As I have said, these are MY boundaries, I wouldn't impose them on others.

I am truly sorry you have been raped, I really am. It is an awful thing to go through. I am glad that it hasn’t impacted you in such a way that you don’t feel threatened around penises (although I am sure it impacts you in other ways).

I have been raped several times, assaulted by many men and my father raped and abused me, my mother and brother. I have PTSD due to what happened to me in my childhood. I cannot be around men in female spaces. I cannot now be in intimate spaces like toilets or changing rooms because someone with a penis might enter that space. I cannot urinate at work during shifts that run to 16 hours unless I leave the site.
I have Muslim, gender critical, lesbian and other female colleagues who, like me now will not change at work or if their uniform gets covered in blood as they often do in A&E we will walk 500-600m to the supermarket across the road that has individual cubicles.

Why are my boundaries and theirs as a women not valid?

Women don’t have penises.

She is using her experiences as a bench mark for other victims which isn’t fair

I don't really know what you mean by this. I've said throughout this is my view, it is subjective, these are my boundaries, I recognise others differ, I think transwomen are not women and in my view that precludes them from some spaces not others. Having a penis makes it more obvious that you are not a woman; however, not having one doesn't allow you onto all-women shortlists. In my view. How is this unfair?

I've reported the goader.

Havingalittlebabytoolshed I am so sorry to hear of what you have been subjected to over the years.

And yes, just because some women are okay with shared sex changing rooms, doesn't make it all right to inflict them on all women.

Being a woman is not a feeling in a man's head.

danny do you class yourself Male or female?

Thanks FermatsTheorem, I’m stronger than I sound but there are some boundaries that I just can’t cross. I am now working an incredibly active job whilst in my third trimester and I do not feel I am able to use the toilet or change at work based purely on my sex.

If I was a trans person and felt I was born a woman and was having gender surgery, I’d be devastated at this thread

And I'd feel sorry for you that your problems meant that simple facts made you so upset. But it would not be on me to lie and pretend that black is white in order to make you feel better, would it?

It's not even slightly comparable to breastfeeding or reproducing. We all know that some women can do neither. Those people know it to. Your comments are expecting us all to pretend that none of us could breastfeed or reproduce, to make you feel better. It would be a lie.

I'm terribly sorry for men who feel like they should be women. But I'm not going to lie and pretend that they are women, just to make them feel better.

Yawn

I class myself as female

Notable that Rat and the usual flag wavers for TW are women have been deafeningly silent on the threads about Bradley and Challenor.

Innit...

I class myself as female

In what sense are you female?

@y0rkier0se I'm sure we all have every sympathy with adults and children in genuine despair. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that an unquestioning push along an irreversible transitioning path is the only answer. There is a danger that children struggling with gender or sexual identity, or indeed any other mental health challenges, are being funnelled into a burgeoning gender transition industry without any opportunity to properly investigate other support or therapy options.

It's ironic that as the terminology available for non-binary identities increases, the boxes which society uses to define male/ female becomes increasingly narrow and stereotypical. It's no wonder that young people who feel they don't fit into narrow masculine/feminine stereotypes are in despair. I read a tweet posted by the child of a well-known organisation for transgender children which said that he must have always been a girl because he played with dolls etc as a child. Why on earth is society leading children down a path of believing their bodies are wrong just because of the toys they play with?

And of course, there is the question which is the elephant in the room- why would professionals working in a healthcare industry which relies on a constant stream of patients to counsel, supply a lifetime's worth of drugs to, and carry out expensive operations on, be so adamant that all young people struggling with gender identity/ natural puberty-related bodily changes must be unquestioningly transitioned?