To think the n word needs to be completely banned

[LardLizard]

Rodrigo removed from the B.B. house

I think the meaning of the word has a different meaning in these current times

I personally hate the term and thinknit should be totally banned

But can see why it’s confussing for younger people with it in so many pop songs

but an understanding of why you cant use it is neccesary
I agree. With an understanding that not all children have parents like mumsnet posters who will claim they taught their child about white privilege from the second their child was out of nappies.

i do think its very hypocritical of rappers to use the n word claim noone else can, but generate obscene wealth from music littered with mysoginistic and homophobic language, that double standard needs to change. The only thing more irritating then outrage culture is selective outrage culture
Totally agree here.
Outrage at white fan singing n word from a rap.
Rap full of misogyny and homophobia promoting toxic masculinity, totes cool. It's just song lyrics, lighten up.

@MaisyPops - "toxic masculinity" is just a made up sjw buzz word that means nothing.

Not read the thread so sorry isIts been said already but how black can you be for someone to say it OK to say it?
Meghan Markle black enough?
I don't think you ban words. The usage needs to change. "Queer" being obvious example

My god. This thread gets worse every time I pop back in. Time for it to go now Mumsnet surely.

"toxic masculinity" is just a made up sjw buzz word that means nothing.
So it's normal and totally a ok to be homophobic because you're a real man?
It's fine to be a raging misogynist and promote a culture that women are whores to service men's sexual needs?
Is fine and normal that what makes a real man is to be tough and violent and beat about how hard you are (bonus points for getting references to gun violence)?

Yup. All totally cool. Not at all a toxic version of what men should aspire to be. Not at all a toxic culture which teaches boys that women are sexual objects. Not at all toxic to promote messages that men deal with things violently rather than talk about their feelings.

Yup. Made up concept. No issue here.

Then again it probably wasn't worth responding when a reply to issues of homophobia and misogyny was greeted with 'sjw'.

3 generations of being middle-class hey? Yes, that clearly outweighs the problematic issue of his skin color and acts as a magic shield to protect him from any casual or even not so fucking casual racism he might encounter in his day to day life. It's a well known fact that 3 generational middle-class western POC never suffer from discrimination due to the color of their skin - except of course when they do like getting the cops called on them for swimming in communal pools of apartment complexes where they are resident, or when they're reading a book in their car on a lunch break, or taking a nap in their college common room, or waiting for friends in Starbucks.

Women have had the vote for generations does that mean we no longer get to complain tha men still hold the majority of positions of economic and political power, should we just get over the fact that we still bear the majority of the burdens of childcare and housework? We should ignore the pay gap too, hey?

Pff, doesn't seem particularly logical to me. Is it all black people then? Or just those of African descent??? Can a Jamaican use it?

Do you struggle with critical thinking or something? Yes, all black people can use it.

Why? Because YOU say so?!

Because it's not the white boy's word to reclaim. Jesus shitting Christ, this is not difficult.

How does his friend sing the bits about women & white people in those songs?

I have no idea. It’s irrelevant.

(The conversation about signing it or not came up after we were talking about theKendrickLemarr thing mentioned earlier.)

It is not a special privilege to use that word.

@RibbonAurora - all the incidents you refer to happened in the States. How relevant is that for a forum that's predominantly UK posters ?

A word only has the meaning that is intended by the user. Hence the change in Spastic which became offensive, Bastaed which is the most ridiculous, Its not the word its the ay in which it is used/abused. Banning particular words just brings new ones. People want to insult and offend and will do it with any word they choose. Even here on MN words for female genitalia are regularly used as offensive insults. Women eh?

@MaisyPops - it very much sounds to me like you're trying to police what POC can or can't say.

Here are some words I would like to fade away, Toxic, narcissistic, like, and SO......or even worse. so , basically
If we dont have horrible thoughts about people we wont spit foul meanings to existing words. I do agree in this particular word that history makes it difficult to remove offence

Ooh my comment went down better than i expected it to

@NotACleverName

Thanks for proving me right - about the self-righteous virtue signallers - like you - calling people thick, bigoted, and badly educated etc etc, (and trying to shut them down!) for DARING to have an opinion different to yours.

You sound very angry by the way. No need to get angry because people have different opinions to you. SOMETIMES people are not going to agree with you my dear. That's life.

"A single little thing"! We live in a world where it's so easy to learn about historical events (single little things!) (try using that same device that you access MN from). I wish the ignorant amongst the posters here would GOOGLE why black people are reclaiming the word, rather than coming onto bloody MN for back pats and reassurance that you're not the only idiot in the village

I think you and other posters making lots of valid points, but if they wanted to educate themselves then they would, they don't want to, they just want to find a forum in which they can air and excuse their own lack of understanding of racism and their racist attitudes. Look at the ridiculous claims here 'red-haired' people are 'discriminated against' it's the same thing. Yeah right, long history of 'red haired' people enslaved, lynched, targeted by NF, BNP, EDL, BF.

To be fair most of them probably the UKIP 'racist-lite' variety, in which case probably not capable of understanding the difference between individual discrimination or prejudice and structural racism. So let them get on with it, let them use the n-word and let them take the consequences, at least we'll know who/what we're dealing with. But debating with these people just not worth the time and effort.

I find it a concern that the word can slide in unchecked and is becoming more widely used.

Firstly, I never use the word and have no wish to, and recognise it is highly offensive.

However, i don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing if it does become more commonly used so long as the word isn’t used to abuse black people, but rather evolves into a word with gentler and less caustic connotations.

Having an ‘unsayable’ word which represents the grossest, more egregious insult for a group, provides an easy way to attack that group. That’s not a good thing.

Putting ever more severe penalties for its use (ie suspending a white boy for merely repeating a rap song (with his black friends) with this word as a lyric without any suggestion he was using it to offend or attack black people) is not a response which is likely to improve race relations, but rather aggregate them! It’s like a parent who punishes their child ever more strictly as they determinedly try to stamp out all bad behaviour... they’ll probably end up with a rebellious than a good child.

Neutralising the word by converting it over time into a word that doesn’t have such offensive connotations is far better. This is essentially what rap artists have done with their “n**ga”. A positive step forward would be for all people to be able to use this word in the new context that’s been developed around it. Then the power afforded to this word by racists over the years gets destroyed, which is surely what we all want.

Insisting on keeping it ‘alive’ as a totemic symbol of racial injustice only perpetuates the notion that black people are somehow different.... it’s not the way to create a “colour-blind” future that i would like to see.

NotACleverName

Because it's not the white boy's word to reclaim. Jesus shitting Christ, this is not difficult.

What an utterly revolting term you use in your final sentence. You clearly do not object to insulting christians. You should be ashamed of yourself.

No you can't ban people from saying things, when you start banning words it can be a slippery slope. However people need to understand that using offensive terms have consequences. I don't think white people should use it, but if black people want to use the word in a non offensive way, that doesn't impact on my life.

Sophia99

@NotACleverName

Thanks for proving me right - about the self-righteous virtue signallers - like you - calling people thick, bigoted, and badly educated etc etc, (and trying to shut them down!) for DARING to have an opinion different to yours.

You sound very angry by the way. No need to get angry because people have different opinions to you.

Exactly. This poster needs to get a grip. Ranting at other people is making her look very silly.

I’m honestly shocked that in 2018 posters think it’s okay to use the n word (in full, with the “er” ending, not out).

And I’m honestly shocked that in a forum that’s discussing the use of the word that some even get palpitations at seeing the word written down, as though it has magical evil properties! It’s a word... an awful racial insult yes, but a collection of letters the sight of which written down adults should be able to cope with. It’s the modern day equivalent of the Victorian lady and her smelling salts!

Somebody asked if Meghan Markle is “black enough” to use it. Not sure the Queen would be overly pleased.