to ask if any parent is unenthusiastic about University as an option?

[SimpleMathsQueen]

The average student now leaves university with £60,000 debt hanging over his or her head, often for the next 30 years, with interest added. (In 1994 the average debts were £3,000, and in 2009 it was £15,000).

At the same time degrees, except for STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) have largely been devalued in the job market.

Finally, many colleges are overcrowded, anonymous places.

I'm a believer in lifetime learning, by the way. I just don't really see the point of 'university' anymore and think society's obsession with this at 18 is having a negative impact and narrowing young people's horizons ironically.

Thank you blaa

Degree apprenticeships are excellent - but currently not that wide spread or in all sectors. They are also incredibly competitive.

The graduate employment market is actually quite healthy at the moment.

If she goes where she would like to she will also have the opportunity to spend a year abroad studying. She's really excited about the possibility of doing this.

Degree apprenticeships are excellent - but currently not that wide spread or in all sectors. They are also incredibly competitive.

When I first heard about them, dd and I looked into it. It looked far more stressful than going to uni! You needed 3 x As, desperately hard to get into and only in engineering or finance, neither of which appealed.

Life can be a massive slog. Why not take the advantages uni brings when you are young?

Also, we are not near a major city so the only degree apprenticeship near us was a military engineering one!

Not everyone is cut out for engineering careers (surely there are going to be hundreds of unemployed engineers in years to come?!

Having been involved in the recruitment process for degree apprenticeships, I can tell you that
a) they are intensely competitive - 100 applications per place was routine
b) it's not all about the grades
c) soft skills are far more important - time management, being personable, organisation etc. etc. Most 18 year olds did not have what we were asking for to the standard we required
d) they don't get the same university experience - they are working 4 full days per week, at uni one day per week, and then doing personal study in evenings and weekends. Coming home drunk at 3am on a weeknight is not an option.

For those who suit a degree apprenticeship, and manage to get a place, they can be a great option - but it's still very much a minority pursuit.

@twistella you're right. They are hard work and it's a completely different student experience. Absolutely brilliant for some people but not the magic solution people think it is.

And I'm saying that as someone who is currently developing one! They're a great concept but just one of the options available to young people

Ought to add that I always used to advise degree apprenticeship applicants to put in a UCAS application too, so they had a backup option.

Yes I agree they are a good concept, and terribly sensible financially, but definitely not for dd!

I'm the only one in my family who didn't go to uni. I do see more doors opened for the ones who did but at the same time I'm doing fine. Also, comparing myself to friends who did go to uni I think I am actually doing better than they are for whatever reason. I worked my way up and still have further to go. So i wouldn't necessarily push any child I have to go to uni..i wouldn't mind either way. Uni is not everything.

I have no degree, I started work from A-levels and worked my way up, having a complete career change at 31 and working my way up again to a mid-senior position. I earn in excess of £125K.
It worked for me - I got the opportunities despite not having a degree. I do not think it hindered me in any way.

I think having a degree gives you more self-confidence, I have had many moments of self-doubt and thinking they will find out I am a fraud at some point!!

A close relative got the grades to go to a good university but has had the opportunity to join a broking firm in the city. An amazing opportunity (same route I took) he has grasped it with both hands. He moved himself to London! He will do his professional exams. He did this on his own, he applied and out of over 100 applicants he was the only one they wanted to employ; says a lot about him. He is one of the few state educated ones in the company.

It feels odd that we are taking the same path 35 years apart - but I will mentor him and ensure he believes in himself and works out how to deal with certain situations, process his feelings and understands where he and others are coming from (I didn't have this & it was the hardest thing to navigate at 18/19).

It depends on each individual, you have to have the guts to go for what you want and learn as you go, treat everything as an opportunity. In my working career I have been made redundant twice & sacked once.

Yes thee are routes you can take but you need to work hard, not clock watch and be willing to put yourself out there.

I went to Uni, had a great time, lots of interesting jobs open to me after I’d worked a few years. Plus I love learning. I feel privileged.

My brothers left school at 16, and lifelong have always felt that they must work extra hard to make up for a lack of qualifications and more than anything, confidence in themselves. They now earn well, but work crazy hours and are pushing their kids into Uni to give them more opportunities than they had.

I was v v fortunate to go to uni in Scotland, where your degree is funded for you by the government - almost everyone I know went to uni because it was the "done" thing and it didn't cost anything! The only thing I had to pay for was my postgrad, which not having paid anything for my undergrad, I had been able to save up for. I wouldn't have got the job I have had I not gone to uni. In saying that, I was the first of my family to go to uni, and both my parents and my siblings have great jobs that they went into straight from school

A lot of people in my class at school did not go to university (most of them and in my day only 15% of people went anyway) and I think I earn more than any of them and I got the best university results so there is a co-relation there. However one of our year married someone who is now fairly high up the rich list so she is certainly better off than all of us put together! She was not keen on school work and did not like school but has certainly formed a nice life and family. Interestingly both she and I moved from the NE to London (where work is better paid).

I'm very fortunate enough to love in Scotland where tuition fees will be free for my children and I will help them to attend university as I think a degree is very useful in today's and certainly future job markets. Both my OH and I have put ourselves through open university to get degrees in order to further our careers as I was stuck at one grade in community education after 10 years without the option to process unless I was degree qualified. Obviously university is not for everyone but education is still the key to gaining top jobs but work experience is also just as important hence why I work fulltime, study part time and volunteer twice a week in a psychiatric ward...all in preparation for my career change to a psychologist x

Really depends on the child. My eldest may or may not go but I think it would be good for her as she's pretty immature and needs more time to grow up a bit socially. I would love her to be able to access an apprenticeship degree as I think this would be best of both worlds - social finding yourself side of uni and discipline of work. The money side worries me but if they want to go I will help as much as I can financially.

Rubbish. You are taking some general view that doesn't take into account each child is an individual.

I agree Uni shouldn't be the only way. Oddly, I don't think it is even if the media would have you believe it. Many of my children's peers haven't gone to uni - there are some that have, some into apprenticeships, a few to drama school, some work (of varying futures, but some pretty good possibilities), and a few have had children early. One - a generally lower grade GCSE student - has a very good career starting as an apprentice at 16 and is now self employed and is currently buying his first home aged 22!

If I had to guess I would say 1/3 have gone to Uni.

I'm conflicted about my degree tbh.

I never questioned the fact that I was going to go to uni, but ended up doing English as it was a subject I was very good at and I didn't really have any solid career ideas. Like many others I ended up job which had nothing to do with my degree (IT Sales) before eventually managing to get into business writing.

However, I now get paid a shade over £50k for driving a truck and would never go back to the stress of office work.

What I don't get is this: if you think a degree is devalued and you'll struggle to get a decent job with one, what is the value of not even having one? Do you not think you'd struggle even more without one?

It's like saying a 50 pound note doesn't buy you all the stuff it once did, so I'll just try and buy what I want with a pound instead!

I would always encourage mine to go if possible. Education never a waste and better to be with the masses with one than without.

Also apprenticeships can be overrated and almost slave labour. 16 years old and working fully doesn t seem quite right. I did one myself and was taken advantage of

I work in an industry where degree level training is very new. Me and my contemporaries just got into it and worked our way up. This is still a perfectly viable option.

Unfortunately as education is a nice little earner for some; youngsters are convinced that's the way to go.

I'm sure my industry isn't alone in this scam.

There is certainly a place for tertiary education but not perhaps as much as is promoted.

I have a very academic child who is planning on Uni next year. She got 10 A* in GCSEs and is on course for high grade A Levels too. She can't wait for uni, will study a stem subject and loves study and the social side of life.This is her thing so for her, regardless of the debt it's the right thing. If she was scraping through I'd encourage other avenues. I don't think uni is everything. I know several people who have got to high levels in their career and left school at 16. Playing to your strengths is the key.

DS1 did PPE and has a good income from a public sector job. DS2 did fashion design at a respected Russell group uni and has a great job designing for a high end womenswear company, though not very well paid. They were both keenly aware that we could not fund masters degrees for them and they really applied themselves to finding good graduate jobs. Very well worth it for both of them to go to university as they have made loads of friends who remain close and really developed as human beings as a result.

DH and I were both the first in our immediate family to go to university, it gave both of us confidence and real self belief. My cousins and one sibling who stayed "at home" have not done so well in any sense as those of us who went to university.

If she was scraping through I'd encourage other avenues

@Everyoneiswingingit what other avenues would you encourage?

I went to a university often labelled "elite" or "top" (or whatever else). Am state comp educated, first in mum's family to get a degree. Dad went to a poly, and was first in his family to go.

I applied and was thrilled to get in, in part because I wanted to have good job prospects. Working, ironically, never worked out. Within two years of graduating I was running my own business, and now I hardly use any of the skills I learned in my degree for work. Those that I do use I could have learned myself.

Sometimes I really regret it. I could have started my business at 18 and be well ahead of where I am now. (I had all the same advantages then that I have now - the skills, access to market, small amount of initial funding.) I also wouldn't be paying back a loan.

The reason I don't regret it, though, is that it gave me other skills and experiences which I value. I like to think, I ponder everything and I love debating an issue. I am a voracious reader and a good writer. I am open-minded in a way that people in my hometown weren't.

If I had left school at 16 I wouldn't have had all that. I would have had other things, but I wouldn't be who I am now.