to ask if any parent is unenthusiastic about University as an option?

[SimpleMathsQueen]

The average student now leaves university with £60,000 debt hanging over his or her head, often for the next 30 years, with interest added. (In 1994 the average debts were £3,000, and in 2009 it was £15,000).

At the same time degrees, except for STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) have largely been devalued in the job market.

Finally, many colleges are overcrowded, anonymous places.

I'm a believer in lifetime learning, by the way. I just don't really see the point of 'university' anymore and think society's obsession with this at 18 is having a negative impact and narrowing young people's horizons ironically.

What parents (and in many cases students) fail to realise is that they’re paying top dollar to be taught mostly by PhD students and temp staff on short term low paid zero hour contracts, while the people who are are employed on a full time permanent basis as “lecturers” and professors focus more on research as it brings in more funds and grants.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/16/universities-accused-of-importing-sports-direct-model-for-lecturers-pay

@bigblue that's not true. Certainly not at my institution

If you don’t want to go to university, don’t go.

@BlaaBlaaBlaa It is certainly true at many institutions including some Russell Group universities as the linked article says.

I am relieved that only one of my kids has chosen a University.
The other is doing a part time computer training course.

My DD will be doing a nursing degree- no fees to pay back and thankfully a bursary because it's a nursing course- which she doesn't have to repay.

Phew!

We haven't put any expectation on ours for further education other than explaining what the options are.

School, however, put tremendous pressure on the able students to be almost tunnel visioned about like after A levels.

Our eldest has started at Uni because their passion (and aptitude) is for Chemistry and we can see them being a perpetual scholar - they have a love of learning that is awesome.
Middle one is about to go into Y13 but is edging away from Uni. All we've said is to do the UCAS form whilst at school and with all the support around them. They are considering a career which you can (and arguably should) start from the bottom and work your way up.
Youngest isn't even looking that far ahead yet - GCSEs to get through first.

Personally, I think Labour have a lot to answer for getting rid of polytechnics, introducing tuition fees and pushing university for all.

I take it you're not in England, speakout. Because, here, nursing students do pay fees and the bursary has been abolished.

thanks BookMum for those ideas too.

I was the first and last of my family to go to university and I will treasure that opportunity all of my life. I passionately believe in education for education's sake - not just as a route to a job.

I was gutted when DD2 chose not to go to uni. She is sharp, witty and confident. She travelled for five years. Did the ski seasons as a chalet maid and spent the summers working in bars across Australia, Europe and Canada. I'd nag her about "getting a career" and her answer was that i worked 50 hours a week for 48 weeks to fund a ski holiday - and she could ski every day for five months. Grrr!

She got fed up sharing a room with half a dozen others and applied for the civil service apprenticeship scheme. A year later she's got a fabulous job she loves, well paid, great life in London. No debt and building up savings as a deposit for a house home in Scotland.

So my view has completely changed. I don't regret my path at all, but I no longer think University is the only way.

NameChangedAgain18

Not England, no, but I am in the UK.

No tuition fees for University and Nursing students still have bursaries.

It depends on their interests but as things stand I would encourage university as it opens doors. A degree alone is not enough though. I’ve just recruited for an entry level post in a desirable field. Every candidate shortlisted has straight A/A*levels, at least 50% has a first or masters degree. They had work experience, volunteering and a university society position. I had countless exceptional candidates that we couldn’t shortlist. It is scary how many hoops young people need to jump though. The biggest advice I would give a young person going to university is to work hard at the degree but to make sure they are getting as much experience of the extra ciricular opportunities as possible as the degree alone won’t be enough to secure their preferred jobs.

@bigblue it does happen at some Russell group / research intensive universities but it's not a prolific as the article makes out. Also, you're finding more and more established academics are being made to do PhDs - which technically makes them a PhD student but they have years of teaching and industry experience.

All the more reason to look more widely and beyond the RG uni's and look at those that value teaching excellence.

5 years ago, the night before the A level results came out, DS1 said he’d changed his mind about uni and wasn’t going. He’d always wanted to join the army so said he was going to try for that. We agreed he’d defer for a year to see what happened. He got 3 A’s when he got his results but that didn’t change his mind.

Cut a long story short he joined the army before the year was up and absolutely loves it. He’s doing incredibly well in his career, was promoted last year and earns more than every one of his friends who went to uni. He drives round in a BMW and has a very healthy savings account. He doesn’t regret not going to university one bit. I appreciate the armed forces aren’t for everyone but it’s working well for him.

DS2 has just finished his nursing degree. He didn’t enjoy the university experience. Thankfully he got a bursary and no fees. Had he have been able to become a nurse without going to uni I think he would have been happier.

I wish there was less pressure on kids to go to university, tbh.

FairyCaravan and Olly - just find your experiences so interesting. Especially in the examples where your DC made their choices despite your misgivings; they seemed to 'know' what was going to work for them and didn't necessarily buy into the hype.

I agree to an extent but this country has never got vocational education right... case in point there was a specialist building/construction college opened near me, we are told we are short of tradespeople in this country, it's been closed down in less than five years of opening - wtf?! Certainly at my school uni was portrayed as the only option, I remember at options one of the options was "motor vehicle maintenance" for the "less able" students - my Dad piped up as a Ford dealer at the time and said he thought it should be a offered to everyone and that his technicians certainly weren't less able and earned well above an average salary, this was met with a bemused look for the head who clearly had no desire for any of his students to become a mechanic! I think a lot of snobbery encourages poor choices, I know people who have done degrees then reverted to become electricians because they can earn more.

I also think there's not enough made on life skills and personality and tailoring you to the right job.

I agree with the OP's later point about how it encourages a distorted view of debt and I dread to think what it will be by the time my kids go - if the my do - kind of hoping for a personal hairdresser (!)

Hi OP ,,just to say I never went to uni but my son did ...he is now 27 and I can honestly tell you he hated every minute of his 3 years there,He still lived at home so saved there ..If you would ask him if he thought it was worth it he would say no ,,,he thought it a complete waste of time in effect he thought they could have condensed his course by half but and here is the but ,,he is earning now way more than I ever could,,he has far more choices in life that I will ever have and he is having a fabulous life,,,he has a great job and is currently on a 5 star holiday in italy! He has that piece of paper ,,that degree and for him he wouldnt be where he is without it ...dont know if it helps any but thats my take on it! The only thing I would say is stick to the russell group unis if only for the reputation it is added value I believe ..best wishes

@Racecardriver No probs, it was fair comment. Besides, this is AIBU!

My boy had landed a traineeship as a aeronautical engineer

And I am thrilled his tutor told them all at the start of the year buy the end of the year I hope to see none of you my wish is you all get traineeships

My lad will be doing a HNd. And the company are paying two days at collage 3 days at work

I agree with @BlaaBlaaBlaa first comment. I started a job after college and flew up and was on a cracking salary but there is only so far you can go.

I did some travelling out of frustration at the job and when I got back even with 6 years in a reasonably senior role I couldn't get anything because I didn't have a degree. I'm now 30 and 1 year into an open degree because absolutely no jobs that will earn a good wage are open to people that don't have a degree. I'm a PA at the moment getting paid well for that role but if I'd have gone to uni at 18/19 I'd be leagues ahead in my career with 9 years work experience too. The best reason to go to uni out of college is because you don't usually have any responsibilities.

As it is chances are I'll having to be studying, working full time and having babies all at the same time which isn't ideal!

I did Modern European Languages at a Russell Group university and it absolutely changed my life. I studied abroad for a year, met my husband and lifelong friends, and grew into a capable adult in my 4 years there. I also now have a job I love which required a degree back in 2007 and certainly does now. I left owing £10k but I can say that it was worth the many thousands more that it would cost me to go now.

because absolutely no jobs that will earn a good wage are open to people that don't have a degree

I think this is getting more and more the case, but accountancy springs to mind as something you can get into without a degree and can be successful

I didn't go to University when I left college it didn't intrest me at all. I also didnt have a clue what I wanted to do. I ended up getting a decent job that enabled my dp and me to buy our first house when I was 22, have nice cars and holidays.

Now at the age of 26 with a 2 year old ds I start Uni in October whilst working 25 hours a week to. This is the only way I can get a better paid job that still suits my family life.

So many employers expect degrees now it's not going to change either.

I agree it is pointless for a lot of degrees, where young people would be better off gaining work place experience and training, perhaps through an apprenticeship.

If you are studying a rigorous degree at a well respected university which is in demand by employers, then not pointless at all. For many professions, study at university is mandated (doctor, vet, dentist etc) and vocational degrees such as these are most definitely worth getting

I haven’t got a degree. I left school at 16 with 8 GCSEs. That was in 2000 so not that long ago.
I moved out of home and in to a house share at 17 so did all my ‘growing up’ etc whilst working.
I have travelled the world and worked my way up in my chosen career. My salary is currently £39k (in the Midlands) and I am going back to work after maternity leave to a promotion to management. I think I have done ok!

DH also doesn’t have a degree - he works in architecture and is killing it! Has a great reputation in the industry and has been head hunted for jobs around £60k mark.

Also - not everyone is hell bent on having a career. Not everyone lives to work and not everyone is defined by what they do! So I don’t think that Uni is necessarily always the best option!