to ask if any parent is unenthusiastic about University as an option?

[SimpleMathsQueen]

The average student now leaves university with £60,000 debt hanging over his or her head, often for the next 30 years, with interest added. (In 1994 the average debts were £3,000, and in 2009 it was £15,000).

At the same time degrees, except for STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) have largely been devalued in the job market.

Finally, many colleges are overcrowded, anonymous places.

I'm a believer in lifetime learning, by the way. I just don't really see the point of 'university' anymore and think society's obsession with this at 18 is having a negative impact and narrowing young people's horizons ironically.

We have a couple of degree apprentices at work and they are getting excellent on the job training, in financial tech and honestly I think it’s great and will serve them well long term.

I do appreciate studying and achieving a degree for the learnings sake but not at today’s prices.

For me it really depends on the degree and what DS wants to do with his life.
Having said that, I want him to be able to have any option, which is why I encourage him to get the best possible grades.

I see the point of it, for courses that lead to a direct qualification like a nurse, Dr, Speech and Language Therapist etc etc. I don't see the point of it for a lot of other stuff, but it does show a level of education that's more appealing to employers I guess.

University isn’t for everyone. Some people are naturally more inclined to have an apprenticeship type job I.e hairdresser, beautician, bricklayer, plumber etc. That’s fine but there are people (like me) who are more academic and definitely not practical, university felt like my best option.

I wouldn’t force my DC into university but I wouldn’t say it makes me ‘unenthusiastic’. I would prefer they went to university than not regardless of the debt.

Unless mine know exactly what they want to do at uni and why, I will encourage them to work for at least a year first - my gap year in an international company scheme was exactly what I needed, building confidence, gaining experience of the workplace, and also practicing being a student while earning money.

Everyone I know who went to uni a year or more after school said that if nothing else, they learnt they didn't want long-term the sort of jobs you could get without a degree, or they rose up enough to start to see the point of a certain degree so they could progress further.

Even though I'm in London so my kids could commute to excellent universities, I'd prefer them to live away and make sure they could take advantage of all the activities and societies around a university too.

For me as a parent who will need to top up loans I will be seriously advising my dc to pick a solid degree (preferably STEM) that is likely to lead to good careers with scope for steady progression. I don't agree with going to uni for the sake of any degree.

I've had my life and now it's their turn to choose. The only thing that I put my foot down on is that there is not an option to do nothing

Beautifully put.

I used to be very much pro-uni if at all possible, but now I am probably more neutral. DS1 is v academic, achieved excellent results in his A levels (science & maths subjects) - but didn't want to continue in FT education. I was a little concerned but it was his choice. He went for an apprenticeship in IT and a few years on has a fantasic job he loves - which he could have applied for as a graduate but didn't need to.

Obviously some careers need a particular degree - but if that's not what you're aiming for, I now know it's worth looking at alternatives. The idea of apprenticeships only being for practical, blue collar work is really no longer the case.

@meredintofoendiculation, I just reread my comment, it sounded overly aggressive . I was trying to convey that the circumstances that lead to the way I grew up were pretty out there so while it looks really homogenous on the surface of it the way that different people I have known gave gone to university and the result its produced have been very varried but it has lead to this really warped experience of pretty much everyobe going to university

There isnt even a record to break there ds2
He could be the first to get a PhD, unless another got (gets) there first.

e idea of apprenticeships only being for practical, blue collar work is really no longer the case

Absolutely

poly, yes maybe a gap year would be good if he's not absolutely clear. lightbulb moment!

i mean a gap year working, not extended vacation .

during gap year, he could decide whether university would be "worth it" in the scheme of things....

I just find not going to university weird
I find going to university weird. Very few of my generation went, very few stayed on to A levels.
O think the expectation of 50% going to uni was way too high.

There are loads of apprenticeships that are not engineering. A lot of dcs friends have taken apprenticeships and most are office based.
Dd is off to uni next month , but her career is only available to her with a degree.
Ds didnt finish his degree but has just got an very good job without it.

I agree op.
My kids will do their degree as apprentices I hope

I agree OP. I'm a solicitor, and did my Law degree at Cambridge. I qualified for a grant when I was there and hardship funds due to my parents low income. The only debt I incurred was when I did my LPC as there was no grant for that. So I effectively left education not owing any money.

I am probably the sort of person who should bang the drum for uni...but honestly it's a vast sum of money to incur especially if your degree is not going to add anything in terms of career or earning potential.

Neither of my DC are going to uni. They don't see the point. Eldest is currently working in an office, hasn't worked out what he really wants to do, not earning loads but is on the same as recent graduates (non vocational degrees) who are a couple of years older and have significant debts . My younger DS wants to go into web design and development. He doesn't see any point doing this at uni (I agree) when he can get a job/apprenticeship in it at 18. A uni degree in that field won't advance him at all.

Unless you want to be a dr, dentist, teacher, engineer, scientist...you don't need a degree. I worry about my DSs friends who are doing media studies type degrees. They are setting themselves up for a lifetime of debt.

I'm not unenthusiastic about it but I think university is overrated and unnecessary for certain career paths. I didn't go myself and wouldn't be upset if DS decided not to go. A good work ethic and willingness to learn is what I hope for from him.

An indebted population are far more compliant.

And apprenticeships aren't just engineering and hairdressing any more. I know somebody who did a digital marketing apprenticeship.

Sorry,
An indebted population are far more compliant.

Maybe at first, but too much debt leads to social unrest eventually.

It really depends on what do people decide to study. I know 30 people with art degree. None of them works with art...

Many students won't pay it back you're right, but someone will have to pay it (including the taxpayer who didn't go to university shock)
Well the taxpayer would be paying anyway as it needs to be funded somehow.

I am about to start Law as a mature student. Versatile degree which allows progression into many careers

@bruffin I was having a really interesting conversation with one of the mothers from nursery. She an her husband are just slightly older than my husband and they both had really awesome careers with BP without going to uni. I think the whole university being standard thing is really new. Only people born post 1980 in my experience see it as something you must do. Even then some of my friends who were 80s children are much more open to the whole get a job and work your way up thing which is a bit laughable to me (90s child). I do have one close friend from school who didn't finish uni but again she went because its what you do. So it definitely partially a generational thing but I also think it's also influenced by what your parents did. If your parents managed to find decent jobs without a degree one would probably be more open to the school of life.

At my age it feels like you either go to uni or start a business/become and artist of some kind.

What about a Further Education college and doing a vocational qualification such as NVQ or Cache or City and Guilds. Level 2 ones are generally for age 16 (after GCSE) and level 3 for age 18 up. Colleges seem to offer bucket loads of these and for some jobs people often are expected to have the relevent level 2 or 3 in that field regardless of whether you have a degree. Childcare for example - pretty much the qualification always required is called something like Cache Level 2 Child Development and Early Years Education. You don't need to go to university for that. Do level 2 at 16, level 3 at 18 and be a qualified full time childcare worked at 20. (Childcare is obviously just one example)