17 year old performer, not allowed to do what in the theater shocked 😮

[Willowk321]

So basically, my DS is 17. It is legal for him to have a job without parental concent, it is legal for him to drive (if he has passed his test which tbh he hasn’t 😜), he can legally move out- again without parental concent, and he can legally concent to his own medication.

He is also currently in a amateur production for a local company which he is really enjoying. However, I have been informed that I must accompany him to the stage door and sign to say I have dropped him off and Vice a versa at the end of the rehearsal.

I told my son I thought that this was ridiculous and refused to do it, however his director telephoned me the other night to told me thet it was a legal requirement and that any person under 18 is not allowed to vouch for themselves “Same way they don’t have any other responsibilities”. I then mentioned the above and they basically just said “yeah, well that’s different”. I mean WTF.

Anyway the thing that has annoyed me is what they said is complete 💩:

As soon I came off the phone, I went straight to Google to look up the law, as I would be amazed if you had to be picked up at an age where your considered mature enough to live on your own and even be married (yes, I do know that you need parental consent for that. Well, unless you run off to Scotland which; let’s be honest; is what most probably do 😉). Anyway I researched the law and click on the official document on gov uk and what a surprise... the age is 16. 😡🙄

I then checked my local authority to see if it was the same and it appeared to be. So I decided to ring up the Council and told them about the situation, and they told me:

“Although, the law is 16, it is not uncommon for theater groups/dance schools to raise the age (mostly to 18). 16 is the minimum age but theatre groups could raise the age to 30 if they wanted to and if you theater group wants you to pick up your 17 year old, then it’s their choice and life would be much easier if you just complied with it.”

So there you have it. It is clear that 17 year olds are legal to leave on their own, but my theater group just doesn’t want them to. I have discussed this with DS and although we both agree it is completely ridiculous; I have decided to comply as he desperately wants to do the show.

I suppose my question to all you lovely people is: should a 17 year old be allowed to leave a theater on there own? What age can members leave unaccompanied at your dance school/theater group?

I understand that some people feel that all people under 18s are children, but there is no denying that 0-17 is a broad age range, for example 17 year olds will naturally have more rights and responsibility’s then a 3 year old will.

I would like to say though, if you feel that 17 year olds should be escorted as they are still “children”, would you feel the same about a 17 year old McDonald worker being escorted. I personally cannot tell the difference, but... just a thought 🤔

Anyway I will leave it with you 😂

Perhaps it’s to do with the possibility that a weirdo stalker may see your son on stage and follow him after the show? I think that their caring attitude is a very good thing, and would personally be happy to comply in support of my child.

This is one of the most ridiculous, paranoid and infantilising pieces of nonsense I’ve read in a long tim .... A “weirdo” could just as easily notice your 17 year old whilst s/he was at the shops, travelling to College, going to the cinema, doing literally anything outside the home...

Should we be trailing them at all times as some kind of bodyguard to prevent this. .

What she is pissed off about is having to physically be present and sign him in when he is dropped off earlier on in the day, like she is booking him into a creche

I didn’t even have to do that when mine were 2-3 year olds at nursery (and that phase only ended 4 years ago).

ApocalypseNowt
I doubt it will be insurance. People always pipe up 'because insurance' when 'insurance' is rarely where these rules or conditions originate from.

I wouldn't be so sure. I used to do part-time work for a dance school, the owner once told me the terms and conditions on the public liability policy she got from her teachers' association. Because it was a private business that involved working with minors they were really strict.

Barnabybungle, I know that does sound paranoid and unlikely but that is EXACTLY the situation that happened to me as a teenager based on a mentally unwell adult man seeing me in a dance show and developing a fascination, following me home and then following members of the family, finding out my first job etc. He also did similar to other young women and joined amdram groups as a techy. There were a good number of predatory men and women in and around some of the am-dram groups. It’s not that safe an environment and it can be hard to keep young people safe.

I confess that I haven't read through the thread, but....
I coach Colts rugby, the boys are 16-18. Some of our players are driving themselves to training and matches.
BUT, under the RFU Safeguarding guidelines we still have to treat them as minors, parental consent for bus trips, medical issues etc.
We had a major headache when going on tour this year. Belgium, where the legal drinking age is 16

I guess that the theatre company has, quite rightly,a child protection/safeguarding policy. It goes up to 18.

Of course it has a safeguarding policy.... just because it has such a policy doesn’t mean it’s a reasonable one.

For instance, I could have a safeguarding policy that involved me literally wrapping up young people in cotton wool and forbidding them from climbing stairs without crash mats being placed at the bottom and climbing safety harnesses being attached...whilst forcing all adult males to walk round blindfolded to ensure they didn’t look inappropriately at anyone. It’s ‘safeguarding’ so anyone who objected in any way to it clearly just doesn’t care about children.

RibbonAurora I work in insurance so I'm pretty sure tbh. What we would normally ask for or make cover subject to is a robust risk assessment. So school age children, depending on age we would expect reasonable controls in place for pick up/drop off. This would not normally include stipulating that parents pick up 17 year olds.

Fully understand how you feel. The organisation though is entitled to apply there own regulations. I am constantly angered at how someone from age 16 can do all the things you mention adding join the armed forces yet is still classed as a child by the law. In Scotland not only can they marry at 16 without parental authority the can also vote in local and Scottish parliamentary elections.. To immature to be classed as an adult but can make decisions that can affect others. I despair.

big fat mermaid - language like that and youth work in a youth club - you couldn't make it up what is happening to our world.

Keepserving

I so agree with everything you just said

Although I can understand your frustration with the sign in and out instructions, which sounds daft for a 17 yr old, the rules for theatres with child performers are different. I was a chaperone when my son was involved in amateur dramatics. There are a number of safeguarding issues concerning children in theatre, which means that the policy is very different to the outside world. In our training we were given some examples of awful outcomes / problems, which was not incidentally confined to the very young performers. The sign in and out policy for 17 yr olds sounds like there must have been some sort of problem historically which has led to this requirement for this age group ( not the norm in our group btw) . You should be aware that the local authority can at any stage check/ inspect amateur theatre groups to check that age appropriate policies within performing arts are being upheld.
if the local authority inspected and had concerns with children’s safeguarding, the theatre group could be shut down, so directors/ producers have to be very careful . Most tend to be over cautious for obvious reasons.....

There is no law that adults have to give consent to the medical treatment of their children. Children who are mature enough to consent to medical treatment themselves have the right to do so - this would usually be around age 12 or 13.
Child protection measures only need to be reasonable - for instance on a school residential trip it would be reasonable for children aged around 12 and over to be allowed to go into town in pairs, without adult supervision.
This cotton wool treatment of under 18s by some clubs and activity centres, depriving them of all independence, is completely unnecessary and is simply them derogating their responsibility to come up with a reasonable risk assessment and child protection measures. Parents should resist it. Boycott if necessary.

Yanbu. This would drive me bonkers. I hate stupid rules and I hate rules applied incorrectly. Could you offer to write them a letter giving express permission for him to arrive and leave without you?
Also what if you refuse? Will they sack him?

It’s a safe guarding issue! Think of it like him being in 6th form if he stayed at a school you have to call up and let them know if he is absent or late! However if he went to college he would be in charge of that sort of thing himself! It’s the same principle, that being said i used to take myself to stage school it was a 20
Minute walk and if my mum was too busy to drive I’d just walk it and they never
Cared that was from 14-16 this was a school for 5-16 year olds. I know a lot has changed in 10 years around safeguarding though and they are covering there backs
It’s annoying but it’s the way the world is! I mean they have to be in some kind of education now until they are 18 so they aren’t technically adults until then!

I would be annoyed about this if my teen was able to make their own way home and this rule caused me a great deal of inconvenience. My son is 17 and I work full time, he plays sport and this rule could create problems. It seems a bit over the top if they wont even allow you to sign a disclaimer. However, it's their organisation and their rules so I guess you just have to work around it.

I bet you can't wait until he's birthday 🎂

I'm with you, OP. I left home at 17. My parents didn't have a car, so how would they have even picked me up!

Pretty sure if my 16yr old was in a theatre group she'd be mortified if I had to pick her up - she goes everywhere by public transport.

OP “Hit and Run” threads REALLY piss me off.

My son and his 17 year old friends all went to the trampoline park by train. Arrived there and couldn’t go in without a parent signature! I think that should be over 16’s can sign themselves. But school still send slips home for parental permission too.

OH is a fully-trained Arts Chaperone, and this is 100% standard practice in the entertainment sector - for all of the protection reasons stated elsewhere by other respondents. This is because of the somewhat chequered history of child protection in the industry - and yes your DC is considered to be a child in this respect until they are 18. Its as much of a hassle for the organisation as it is for you -probably moreso TBH.

You sound like the sort of entitled, uppity PITA parent that every drama / dance school utterly dreads. You're doing a great job of being "that parent" - the one your DC probably dreads having as well!

I'm really glad you're nothing to do with the dance school where my OH and DD both work. They and the rest of the team are better off without you - though sadly there are many more cut from the same cloth.

On a side note, as DC doesn't drive how would they be getting home anyway - I hope you'll find it in your parenting heart to at least give them a quid for the bus

My14 year old dd comes and goes from her theatre group and has done since she was 12.

This is such a daft policy! Our local council run playschemes let children come and go as they please from the age of 5! (Unreasonable on the other end of the scale imo!)

I run an adult recreational ice hockey team and we have our hands tied by similar rules.

If we want to have any player on the ice who under the age of 18 we have to have two qualified (and DBS checked) coaches present, access to a Child Protection Officer AND have a Child Protection policy signed off by the UK governing body. Having a parent present, even as another member of the team, is not good enough!

I hear that part of the reason is that UK laws are so complicated that it was just easier on everybody to have strict policies in place than to avoid being dragged through the courts every time somebody cried wolf.

Not that I'm against policies to protect CHILDREN from abuse, but having to explain to a team mate that his 17 year old son who no longer qualifies to play for the junior teams (and in all fairness nobody would consider to be a child any more) cannot join us unless the club, run by volunteers and funded entirely by the players, spends £100s and persuades several volunteers to take the roles for just one person.

And those who come to us to play from outside the UK think the whole thing is a farce!

Believe it or not, parents have lives too. Why should they be forced to baby a 17 year old, just because children's clubs don't understand that the law doesn't require it? Some 16 and 17 year olds are already at university. Including international students.

“OH is a fully-trained Arts Chaperone, and this is 100% standard practice in the entertainment sector - for all of the protection reasons stated elsewhere by other respondents. “

I suspect that faced with the onerous task of producing a Safeguarding policy the group has C&P a policy for a professional theatre where the use of children and young people is closely regulated.

Maybe write them a calm reasonable letter questioning the need for a parent to drop and collect, citing the reasonable evidence of what 17 year olds typically do and are allowed to do.

Questioning the policy (reasonably and politely) is a positive move. Expecting them to ignore a policy in place, however impractical it may be, is not realistic. No responsible organisation will knowingly ignore a current safeguarding policy.