17 year old performer, not allowed to do what in the theater shocked 😮

[Willowk321]

So basically, my DS is 17. It is legal for him to have a job without parental concent, it is legal for him to drive (if he has passed his test which tbh he hasn’t 😜), he can legally move out- again without parental concent, and he can legally concent to his own medication.

He is also currently in a amateur production for a local company which he is really enjoying. However, I have been informed that I must accompany him to the stage door and sign to say I have dropped him off and Vice a versa at the end of the rehearsal.

I told my son I thought that this was ridiculous and refused to do it, however his director telephoned me the other night to told me thet it was a legal requirement and that any person under 18 is not allowed to vouch for themselves “Same way they don’t have any other responsibilities”. I then mentioned the above and they basically just said “yeah, well that’s different”. I mean WTF.

Anyway the thing that has annoyed me is what they said is complete 💩:

As soon I came off the phone, I went straight to Google to look up the law, as I would be amazed if you had to be picked up at an age where your considered mature enough to live on your own and even be married (yes, I do know that you need parental consent for that. Well, unless you run off to Scotland which; let’s be honest; is what most probably do 😉). Anyway I researched the law and click on the official document on gov uk and what a surprise... the age is 16. 😡🙄

I then checked my local authority to see if it was the same and it appeared to be. So I decided to ring up the Council and told them about the situation, and they told me:

“Although, the law is 16, it is not uncommon for theater groups/dance schools to raise the age (mostly to 18). 16 is the minimum age but theatre groups could raise the age to 30 if they wanted to and if you theater group wants you to pick up your 17 year old, then it’s their choice and life would be much easier if you just complied with it.”

So there you have it. It is clear that 17 year olds are legal to leave on their own, but my theater group just doesn’t want them to. I have discussed this with DS and although we both agree it is completely ridiculous; I have decided to comply as he desperately wants to do the show.

I suppose my question to all you lovely people is: should a 17 year old be allowed to leave a theater on there own? What age can members leave unaccompanied at your dance school/theater group?

I understand that some people feel that all people under 18s are children, but there is no denying that 0-17 is a broad age range, for example 17 year olds will naturally have more rights and responsibility’s then a 3 year old will.

I would like to say though, if you feel that 17 year olds should be escorted as they are still “children”, would you feel the same about a 17 year old McDonald worker being escorted. I personally cannot tell the difference, but... just a thought 🤔

Anyway I will leave it with you 😂

It’s absolutely bloody ridiculous.

At the very, very, most I’d think a signed letter from the parent would be MORE than enough.

Anyone rattling on about ‘protection’ and ‘safety’ needs to give their head a wobble.

Last time I checked, 3 year olds couldn’t have sex, drive, get married, drink alcohol in a restaurant with their parents, join the armed forces, get a full time job, buy lottery tickets or vote, which are all things 17 year olds can do (in Scotland anyway - can’t vote til you’re 18 in England and Wales).

Yes, but none of these are "rights". They are privileges that can be taken away or denied. Rights are completely different. So the other poster was right. A 3 year old has the same rights as a 17 year old...or indeed a 56 year old

As for the op YANBU. It's ridiculous

Jeezo, but the vipers are out tonight!!

OP, YANBU

for everyone else who has gone on about child safety etc,
I have two children 20 and 17, I have done my chaperoning, I have done most of the lifting. I am happy that they are independently getting themselves out and about without input from me.

What If this child no longer lived in a family home, what if he lived by himself in another part of the country - would he be excluded from taking part?
My job now means I work away from home several times a month, and my child stays home by himself to attend school. Does that mean if I am away for work, he cannot take part?
It’s indirect discrimination on kids whose parents work shifts or work really long hours (and let’s face it - that’s probably the lower socio economic bracket).

Fortunately, this child does have a mother that will make this work for him, and so he will still go, but there are a lot of people who wouldn’t. And that’s on the theatre not being inclusive, and by default excluding children and young adults.

Well done for challenging this OP.

I can't imagine not wanting to do this for my child. The poor sod.

I would be pretty miffed too if I were you OP. My children went to a private school and got themselves there on the train every day from the age of 13. The school expected them to be independent and encouraged it. It was actually frowned upon if parents turned up to collect children. Our now 15 year old DS goes to cadets twice a week and would be really embarrassed if I turned up with him.

I used to play in a band when I was in my early 20s (so we are talking 10+ years ago) on the local pub and club circuit. At one point we had a 17year old singer and she had to have a responsible adult sign her in or at least vouch for her at venues. It was almost always me as I am also a teacher so was deemed responsible!!! They are just covering themselves. I remember at the time thinking it was daft as I thought she was vastly more responsible than the 20-odd year old guys in the band! As a pp has said at least they are taking safeguarding seriously

Goodness - you're very wound up about this. Does it really matter?

Of course it does, it's a massive pain in the backside and unnecessary.

I thought it was stupid enough when I had to give a password for my then nearly 12 year old during the holidays between primary and secondary school for a holiday club. I think he knows who his parents/responsible adults are! So the idea you have to do it for a 17 year old is just ludicrous and it's not the law. 17 year olds can work anywhere, do they also need their parents to sign their contracts if eg they have a Saturday job in M&S?

My drama group has a similar policy, but we require it of all junior cast members (up until you are 16) so at 17 he would still have to sign in and out, but he could sign himself in and out.
Is there not an adult at the group who would be suitable?
I lived 30 mins away from mine so the backstage manager (then aged 19) used to pick up me (at 14) and take me to the group. Often he would bring me home again too. He was allowed to sign me in and out as my mum had called the group leader and informed them of what was going on (I was also playing Cinderella which is a big part in the panto “Cinderella” so I really did need to be there)
Fast forward nearly 15 years and I am married to the backstage manager with two kids, so it can be the start of a lifelong friendship too!

They’re not taking safeguarding seriously though
They are covering their arses.

@ScrubTheDecks: "Any credible safeguarding policy and practice will say a minor must not be discharged into a situation believed to be unsafe. It is the ‘Duty of Care’ that extends beyond the time they are on the premises."

Okay, I will agree with you there. As a one-off, if you think it is unsafe to release that child in those particular circumstances, you should attempt to detain the child and contact the parents, or if that proves impossible, Social Care. You should also make a referral to Social Care. If the parent is putting the child into clearly unsafe situations then that is your responsibility too.

If you just think, "well, I wouldn't let my child walk home alone" or "some other 15 year olds might be unsafe doing this", that is not reason enough to take it upon yourself to override parental preference. You really would need to be fairly sure there was a serious problem.

This is how I put it to my child's headteacher. Just because the other children in his small school in a privileged village never went anywhere without a parent, that didn't mean that it was up to him to decide my 10yo shouldn't go home alone. If he didn't think the situation merited a Social Care referral, he must leave it to my judgement. Of course, if he had made a referral they would have told him to get a grip.

OP sounds unhinged. Chill out love

For the sake of my childs interest I would do it but raise it as an issue (calmly despite my inner wtf feelings) afterwards

At 17 I worked in a supermarket weekends, evenings and holidays - I made my own way there and back most of the time (dad would sometimes take me so he could use my staff discount card and get shopping at the same time) - it would be ridiculous to suggest signing a 17yo in and out of their workplace so why is it needed for their hobby?

The very most I would expect is a permission slip at the beginning of the course / rehearsal period etc saying that you were ok for them to make their own way their and back.

It's over zealous interpretations of rules by people who don't always know or understand their purpose that leads to mockery and people not taking the actual rules seriously and that undermines the situations where rules are actually needed. You find it all the time with health and safety and I see the creep into child protection.

It is slightly ridiculous though. It's just as ridiculous as the time I was officially supposed to send a "heads up, your child has joined the library" letter to a 16 yo's parents even though she was joining at the same time as her husband and baby (I didn't send the letter).

I left home at 17, neither of my parents would have been available to drop me off or pick me up. It is one of those situations where a waiver from a parent to say they were OK with the 17 year old leaving on their own would be a better option.

I'm a chaperone in a theatre group - we are responsible for all under 18s whilst in our care and they have to be dropped off any collected by an adult. Our safeguarding policy was written with advice from local council and we could get into trouble if we made exceptions. The 16 17 year olds get fed up sometimes and want to be treated like adults but it's the rules I'm afraid

It very much depends on the 17yo. But I'm sure the people who know what responsibilities are and aren't appropriate! I think maybe under 16 - collected, 16 - 18 should be at parent/carers descresion and should be able to leave maybe if they have been informed prior by parents. I remember being able to leave secondary school at lunch time with parental permission from y9 I believe?

I don’t think the OP sounds unhinged at all. She’s being inconvenienced (we don’t know how seriously) by an unneccessarily restrictive policy and when she questioned it they lied to her.

Practicallyperfect, would you exclude a 17 year old living on their own or with a seriously disabled parent from your services?

Erm, why don't you just take the council's advice? You called them. They were clear:

"if your theatre group wants you to pick up your 17 year old, then it’s their choice and life would be much easier if you just complied with it.”

OP regardless of what you think about it the law is clear - the minimum age for it not to be required is 16 but they can increase it.

If the question was is it ok for the theatre group to allow my 17 year old to come and go as they please then of course the answer is yes

But at the same time they are allowed to do it so if you want him to do it you have to comply

What right does a 17 year old have that the 3 year old doesn't?

Seriously?

The OP went to the local authority because its the LA who deal with child performance licensing.

As you have found out it is complete rubbish. The only requirements are applicable up until the last Friday in June of Year 11. I have a 16 year old school leaver performing dd & I am a licensed chaperone and this would really annoy me too.

From September onwards 16 year old dd is going to be living away from home to study. Would it also apply to her? The theatre group need to ahve are-think and at least offer a permission form option.

Practically perfect - they may be your theatre groups internal rules but they are not the council rules (the LA don't make the rules in any case they are just responsible for enforcing them and imposiing any conditions they deem necessary for children of licensable age)

I moved out at 16 (a couple of decades ago to be fair!) my daughter (just a couple years ago) moved out to go to uni at 17. She was 2 hours away (neither of us drive) this would've been impossible for us and I wonder how they would've actually made that work if someone in that situation was attending?

Pinkdelight the OP said in the her OP that she is indeed going to pick him up as required. She’s just moaning on MN, as is her right.