17 year old performer, not allowed to do what in the theater shocked 😮

[Willowk321]

So basically, my DS is 17. It is legal for him to have a job without parental concent, it is legal for him to drive (if he has passed his test which tbh he hasn’t 😜), he can legally move out- again without parental concent, and he can legally concent to his own medication.

He is also currently in a amateur production for a local company which he is really enjoying. However, I have been informed that I must accompany him to the stage door and sign to say I have dropped him off and Vice a versa at the end of the rehearsal.

I told my son I thought that this was ridiculous and refused to do it, however his director telephoned me the other night to told me thet it was a legal requirement and that any person under 18 is not allowed to vouch for themselves “Same way they don’t have any other responsibilities”. I then mentioned the above and they basically just said “yeah, well that’s different”. I mean WTF.

Anyway the thing that has annoyed me is what they said is complete 💩:

As soon I came off the phone, I went straight to Google to look up the law, as I would be amazed if you had to be picked up at an age where your considered mature enough to live on your own and even be married (yes, I do know that you need parental consent for that. Well, unless you run off to Scotland which; let’s be honest; is what most probably do 😉). Anyway I researched the law and click on the official document on gov uk and what a surprise... the age is 16. 😡🙄

I then checked my local authority to see if it was the same and it appeared to be. So I decided to ring up the Council and told them about the situation, and they told me:

“Although, the law is 16, it is not uncommon for theater groups/dance schools to raise the age (mostly to 18). 16 is the minimum age but theatre groups could raise the age to 30 if they wanted to and if you theater group wants you to pick up your 17 year old, then it’s their choice and life would be much easier if you just complied with it.”

So there you have it. It is clear that 17 year olds are legal to leave on their own, but my theater group just doesn’t want them to. I have discussed this with DS and although we both agree it is completely ridiculous; I have decided to comply as he desperately wants to do the show.

I suppose my question to all you lovely people is: should a 17 year old be allowed to leave a theater on there own? What age can members leave unaccompanied at your dance school/theater group?

I understand that some people feel that all people under 18s are children, but there is no denying that 0-17 is a broad age range, for example 17 year olds will naturally have more rights and responsibility’s then a 3 year old will.

I would like to say though, if you feel that 17 year olds should be escorted as they are still “children”, would you feel the same about a 17 year old McDonald worker being escorted. I personally cannot tell the difference, but... just a thought 🤔

Anyway I will leave it with you 😂

Last year I had two children and a husband all taking part in three different theatre performances in three different theatres on the same day!!!!!

Last time I checked, 3 year olds couldn’t have sex, drive, get married, drink alcohol in a restaurant with their parents, join the armed forces, get a full time job, buy lottery tickets or vote, which are all things 17 year olds can do (in Scotland anyway - can’t vote til you’re 18 in England and Wales).

Yes, but none of these are "rights". They are privileges that can be taken away or denied. Rights are completely different. So the other poster was right. A 3 year old has the same rights as a 17 year old...

No they fucking don’t. How can the law of consent be a rem9veable privilege? Or a job? Or the forces?

Of COURSE 17yo have more rights. And they are 100% rights.

Are you in the UK, it seems not?

I'd be annoyed at having to collect and drop him off every time, and particularly unimpressed at being lied to about it being a legal requirement.

If the theatre said 'We're just covering ourselves,' fair enough, but they should get their facts straight rather than being officious and wrong.

I left home at 17 - in Scotland you can go to uni at 17. I agree OP, it is a nonsense policy & would cheese me off as well.

The theatre are actually 100% right in what they are asking. The law relating to this is to do with Child Performance Legislation and was introduced in 2014/15. The law is designed to protect child actors and musicians, whether they are paid or amateur as well as children participating in paid modelling and sporting activities. Essentially it was written for those who are, for example, working in places like West End theatres where there is a need to make sure that a person who should be in full time education is not working too many hours a day/week. The change to 18 came about because of the change to the law that now requires all young people up to the age of 18 to be in full time education (before the change they could leave immediately after GCSEs at 16).
Your example about escorting someone to McDonalds is therefore not considered in the same way as a 17 year old can do that at the same time as attending full-time school or college whereas young actors in major productions/films are rarely able to attend school full-time as well as perform/rehearse. Unfortunately whoever created the new legislation decided to apply it to all performers including those taking part in local, unpaid amateur productions and as a result it has created a logistical nightmare for local groups such as stage schools and orchestras because they now have to get every parent to sign a form in advance and then another on drop of which then has to be submitted to the local council as part of what is called a BOPA licence. There are currently a lot of local groups lobbying government to modify the licencing as it simply isn't suitable for those purposes and has led to some having to stop running things because it is so difficult to fulfill the onerous conditions. Just a few examples are that without the licence you can no longer charge for ticket sales to amateur productions (this is how most of these groups would have covered venue hire and insurances for example so the financial impact is huge), you have to have chaperones or you have to have a parent present at all times with each performer under 18, a child may not take part in more than three performances in any six month period, the licence application must be in 1 month before the performance so newcomers to a group cannot join in at the last minute etc.... the list goes on. The obvious thing would be for a parent to be able to apply for an individual licence for their own child but no, you can't do that, it has to be the organisation running the production who submit the licence with all of the performers names on it. It has made it logistically impossible and prohibitively expensive for some groups to keep going.
The biggest irony is that all of this only applies to children attending state schools. If the child is privately educated or home schooled, which a lot of young film/stage actors are, either because they attend specialist stage schools such as Sylvia Young or are home schooled in order to fit their education around their acting commitments then the council can do nothing about it because they aren't,under those circumstances, the ones responsible for their education.
I have to deal with this from both sides as the parent of a child performer and a Trustee of a childrens' performing arts group and whilst safeguarding is absolutely and always a top priority for us and we do jump through all the legislative hoops to comply with BOPA it is is hugely time consuming and not fit for purpose as it doesn't cover all children equally. As you've discovered it creates issues for you as a parent but think about how it feels for the theatre group who have to ask for that form maybe 100-150 times over and then chase up those who don't get back to them to try and make sure that they are able to meet the council submission deadline and then inform those that still don't get the forms back on time that their child will not be able to take part in the performance despite having rehearsed their socks off because the form wasn't returned on time and therefore allowing them to attend would be illegal and could lead to the organisation being banned from running because they aren't taking their safeguarding obligations seriously enough.....
I get that it's frustrating for you but behind the scenes there will be someone who (almost certainly on a voluntary basis) is desperately trying to hold everything together in order to comply with these legal requirements.

Yes, but none of these are "rights". They are privileges that can be taken away or denied. Rights are completely different. So the other poster was right. A 3 year old has the same rights as a 17 year old

By that logic, you have the same rights as a 3 year old. IE none at all.

Irish you are completely incorrect.

The legislation you refer to (which has been in for years before that but was updated in 2014) only applies to children up to the last Friday in June of Year 11. The increase in educatiom leaving age which can include work/apprenticeships) has not affected Child Performance legislaton one bit and anylocal authority who says otherwise is incorrect and can be challeneged in court.

Recently dropped my DC off at a theatre where they were performing in a festival competition. We were met by their teacher and I then had to sign them in with the festival chaperones, all usual so far. I was unable to stay and watch as I had to go to work but had arranged for one of the other parents that was staying to watch their DC to drop them home, arrangements us parents often made to help each other out. I mentioned this to the teacher as I was leaving and one of the chaperones overheard and said absolutely no way that only the person signing them in could sign them out. Another parent piped up that her DH was coming to pick up her DD and apparently this was also against the rules as only the signing in person could sign them out. So we asked what would happen, would they actually refuse to release a 15 year old to her own father or my DC to another known parent verified by their teacher? The answer was that was these were the rules and they were not budging until the situation got chaotic and with threats of no performers they saw sense. I get the need for safeguarding but it is how it is interpreted that matters. The whole thing was just really ridiculous

Also the laws apply equally to a child who is home educated or privately educated (my own child attends a private vocational performing arts school). I have licensed children who are privately educated & state educated and my dd took part in professional panto whilst at a non specialist prep school and the process was exactly the same. The local authority granted the licence and authorised the number of days off school.I have also assisted a parent of state educated child to challenge her school when they initailly refused to authorise time off for a theatre run.

Most theatre groups I know don't bother with Body of Persons instead applying for an exemption for those who havn;t done 4 days in 6 months and full licences for those who have. I live on the border of 4 LA's and they discourage BOPAs.

Gosh, I think some LA's need to start running training courses again Back IN Time.

A chaperone has to ensure they are handing over a child to the correct person but a simple form or permission slip can deal with that issue. Its very very common for mum to drop off and Dad to pick up as long as there is a process in palce for checking who mum & dad are.

It's barmy, and it isn't the law. It's totally up to each organisation. Eg. children years younger than 17 travel to and from boarding school alone. I know some who travel to and from Hong Kong alone.

It may be something specific to performances. Insurance liability? Because my DC happily went to rehearsals day in day out, but on the days of the actual performances, we had to sign them in and out of the stage door of the theatre they'd just spent all week in.

Don't make an issue of it. It's no one's fault and you won't change the law by getting annoyed with people who have to enforce it.

But it isn't the law for a 17 year old. Signing in and out is part of the theatre's own health a& safety/fire regs managment but a parent signing them in isn't for a child who has finished Year 11.

"A child may need a licence if they’re under school leaving age and taking part in:

films, plays, concerts or other public performances that the audience pays to see, or that take place on licensed premises
any sporting events or modelling assignments where the child is paid

The person in charge of running the event must apply to the child’s local council for a child performance licence. Ask the council if you’re not sure you need one.
Your school leaving age depends on where you live.
England

You can leave school on the last Friday in June if you’ll be 16 by the end of the summer holidays."

Primary Legislation
The Children and Young Persons Act 1933
The Children and Young Persons Act 1963
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/23-24/12
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1963/37

This is the primary legislation that covers child performance and this underpins the licensing system. It is this legislation which determines whether a licence is required and gives local authorities the power of enforcement.

Secondary legislation
The Children (Performances and Activities) (England) Regulations 2014

Tricky. Appreciate OP's view.
But maybe because of recent child abuse cases within theatre, and young actors etc recently, people are being more cautious?

Noting this only applies to chidlrenof licensable age

Regulation 18 Travel Arrangements
This regulation states the licence holder must ensure that suitable arrangements are in place to get the child home or to any other destination following the last performance or rehearsal or the end of the activity on any day. It is important the licence holder realises his rensibility in this respect and the licensing authority can impose a condition on the licence regarding travel arrangements.

Best Practice
It is considered best practice that no child should be left to go home alone. They should be signed over by the chaperone to either a parent, or someone with parental responsibility or to a known person whose details have been given to licence holder. A child who is living in accommodation provided by the production will be accompanied
there by the chaperone.

Know a ‘child’ who was in show. Had to be signed out by parent before driving off in his own top of range car. Madness!

If it were my 17 year old, she would be driving herself there and back, would I then have to meet her to 'collect' her?! seems pretty ridiculous to me...

YANBU. We have the same with DS’ swim club. It used to be that once children turned 16 they could sign themselves in and out. Now it’s 18. It’s absolutely ridiculous for many of the reasons previously mentioned but also here because when DS is being a volunteer for the club or in a paid (teaching) role, he doesn’t need me to sign him in or out. It’s only when he is swimming with his squad that he needs his mummy or daddy to sign him in and out. Somehow he is trustworthy when he’s acting as a volunteer or paid employee (and he’s still in the water on these occasions) but not when he’s a swimmer.

Drives me batty and means much more running around after him rather than him being able to get himself to/from swimming (which he manages to do quite well when in his other roles). You have my empathy.

This wouldn't apply to rehearsals with an amateur company.

There is absolutely no excuse for a swimming club. It's completely self-inflicted. I would complain and then boycott.

Its very very common for mum to drop off and Dad to pick up as long as there is a process in palce for checking who mum & dad are.

It's even more common for parents to take it in turns to pick up groups of kids.

Personally Junior would have to wait until he was 18 as I wouldn't be taking him anywhere.

YANBU

To insist on signing a 17 yo in and out is infantilising in the extreme. No wonder we have so many young adults who can’t cope with life’s basics. I’m amazed at the number who think this is in any way appropriate.

Ffs, they don’t need to be signed in and out of school, even from 5! From 11 they are expected to make their own way to and from school independently.