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Original poster

Gender neutral/disabled toilets

155 replies

chchchnamechanges · 20/08/2018 19:01

I was at a venue which had a sign up for male and female loos with another sign pointing to gender neutral and disabled loos. I went to use the disabled loo and realised that there wasn’t a gender neutral toilet at all, it was a shared gender neutral/disabled toilet.

Is this normal? I’m a bit baffled by it - there’s only one toilet and quite often it’s literally the only one the disabled person can access. Or they urgently need to get to a toilet.

I’m going to write a review of the venue’s accessibility (which promises to be great on its website then isn’t) and I’m not sure if this is totally normal and I’m just being OTT expecting disabled loos to be for disabled people?

OP posts:
YeTalkShiteHen · 21/08/2018 19:56

Yep, none of the disabled people who disagree are LGB are they?

If they’re disabled they can use the disabled toilet! If they’re not, they can’t.

Why there are pages and pages debating this is beyond me!

UpstartCrow · 21/08/2018 19:59

Disabled peoples rights is not a 'non issue' Angry

paintedwingsandgiantrings · 21/08/2018 20:04

I genuinely can't understand how anyone could be worried about this without just being anti trans. You're talking about a vanishingly small proportion of people.

Not true.

The government's GRA consultation says up to 1% of people could be trans (as advised by GIRES).

That's a lot of people.

But also - gender neutral toilets mean literally anyone who wants to use them.

Given how popular trans politics are right now, I'd add all the woke bros and young trans allies who think they're making a political stand by using the gender neutral ones.

And anyone else who can't be arsed to queue.

Making it harder for disabled people to access facilities is not the answer.

Aintnothingbutaheartache · 21/08/2018 20:08

Ffs if you are in a wheelchair and need to have a piss is it totally out of anyone’s realm of understanding that it’s not unreasonable to be able to go to a designated toilet without having to queue behind a load of able bodied people who could take a piss elsewhere?

YeTalkShiteHen · 21/08/2018 20:14

The amount of posters on here who would likely scream the place down in horror if a trans person used the toilets of their choice, yet are more than happy to see disabled people disadvantaged and sidelined is fucking depressing.

To the people who want gender neutral toilets...fight your own battles instead of jumping on the back of hard fought for facilities.

Start a campaign for another gender neutral space, I’ll back it. Many would.

But don’t be just another group of people trampling all over the rights of disabled people because it suits your agenda.

Because however you phrase it, it’s a repugnant thing to even suggest.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 21/08/2018 21:50

YeTalkShite how are you deciding that "posters on here who would scream the place down in horror if a trans person used the toilet of their choice" are the same ones saying it's OK for non-disabled people to used the disabled toilets?

I'm reading this thread quite differently.

auntethel · 21/08/2018 23:41

I genuinely can't understand how anyone could be worried about this without just being anti trans. I genuinely can't understand how anyone could not be worried about this without just being anti disabled people!!!

auntethel · 21/08/2018 23:49

What are you going to do then postcards? Just carry on using disabled facilities or fight for your own facilities like disabled people have had to?

GerdaLovesLili · 22/08/2018 09:28

Most of the places I've worked at have had several large, single cubicle disability- accessible, all-use facilities. They've been designed with baby change drop-downs, red pull-cord alarms, pull-down bars, high-contrast design and low basins. But they are non-sex segregated and for anyone to use. There are generally no single-sex facilities or specially designated disabled facilities. In an environment with limited budgets and space, is this not best practice?

GerdaLovesLili · 22/08/2018 09:30

Unless the facility is guarded by a RADAR key, then the facility is generally disability accessible rather than disability-reserved.

Sirzy · 22/08/2018 09:39

Places shouldn’t need to be locked for people who don’t NEED it not to use it!

AllPizzasGreatAndSmall · 22/08/2018 09:48

Given that many disabled people require carers to help with toileting, and often that carer is a spouse or parent and the opposite sex to the disabled person trying to have “male” and “female” disabled toilets wouldn’t work - hence it being a neutral facilities for those who have no other option.
Yet some places choose to have a disabled cubicle within each of the male and female loos, so when taking my adult disabled son to the loo which do they expect us to use?

Tomatoesrock · 22/08/2018 09:49

I only assumed disability toilet were gender neutral. Lots of the Universitys in Dublin now have gender neutral stalls. My DNiece said is very popular now and there is many young trans people in her year. Shock

auntethel · 23/08/2018 15:36

They'll be after our well deserved RADAR keys next!

YeTalkShiteHen · 23/08/2018 15:41

I'm reading this thread quite differently

If they were happy for transpeople to use the toilets of their choosing, the disabled toilets being corralled to be gender neutral too wouldn’t be an issue, would it?

YeTalkShiteHen · 23/08/2018 15:43

Places shouldn’t need to be locked for people who don’t NEED it not to use it!

This sums it up nicely.

Unless the facility is guarded by a RADAR key, then the facility is generally disability accessible rather than disability-reserved

How so? If it’s set up for disabled people to use and accommodates various needs, why on earth would anyone who didn’t need it use it? Unless they were a complete twat that is.

auntethel · 23/08/2018 16:48

It's going to be quite interesting seeing the queues of able bodied people waiting for the disabled toilets. Disabled people usually take longer. I take ages, even with dh helping me.

Brambleboo · 23/08/2018 17:00

OP, please do mention it in your review. I need disabled loos and they are already abused. These loos need to be kept for those with disabilities who genuinely need them. I don't know what people find so hard about that.

Samcro · 23/08/2018 17:34

Isn't it funny how on mn trans is a massive thing, where allwomans spaces will br taken over.
Yet when talking about a disabled facility
Suddenly its a small number.
Very odd

Sirzy · 23/08/2018 17:42

Keep all the “undesirables” hidden away together

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 23/08/2018 17:45

YeTalkShite and Samcro

Some posters are saying that the disabled toilets can be used by those who don't want to use sex segregated ones.

Some posters are saying this is not acceptable and these toilets should be reserved for disabled people only.

Some posters are saying that unisex toilets should also be provided (in addition to sex segregated and disabled ones).

It's not given that those opposed to trans or non-binary people using the loos of their chosen 'gender' are the very same ones saying the disabled loos should be open to anyone who wants to use them. I'm not sure how you have drawn this conclusion.

GerdaLovesLili · 23/08/2018 17:49

How so? If it’s set up for disabled people to use and accommodates various needs, why on earth would anyone who didn’t need it use it? Unless they were a complete twat that is.

Because, as I mentioned, in most of the places I have worked all the toilets were designed to accommodate various needs and there were no gendered or other toilets. Just several of the aforementioned individual units. I'm not a twat, I just needed to pee.

YeTalkShiteHen · 23/08/2018 17:49

It's not given that those opposed to trans or non-binary people using the loos of their chosen 'gender' are the very same ones saying the disabled loos should be open to anyone who wants to use them. I'm not sure how you have drawn this conclusion

That’s not what I said, so I’m completely confused as to why you think I did.

But thanks for the ever so patronising explanation.

What I said was that everyone saying the disabled toilet is a reasonable place for trans people to go are talking shit and wouldn’t be happy to have them in the toilets of their choosing.

Not that everyone opposed to self ID and not wanting a penis in the women’s toilets is saying disabled people don’t matter.

So do me a favour before you misinterpret my post and patronise me, read it again.

YeTalkShiteHen · 23/08/2018 17:50

Because, as I mentioned, in most of the places I have worked all the toilets were designed to accommodate various needs and there were no gendered or other toilets. Just several of the aforementioned individual units. I'm not a twat, I just needed to pee.

And argumentative to boot. The situation you describe is not the standard ladies, gents and disabled toilet.

So I wasn’t calling you a twat was I?

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 23/08/2018 18:31

YeTalkShite, you said -

The amount of posters on here who would likely scream the place down in horror if a trans person used the toilet of their choice, yet are more than happy to see disabled people disadvantaged and sidelined is fucking depressing.

I don't think it's either patronising or misrepresenting you to think you are referring to people who oppose self-ID being the same ones who think anyone should be able to use the disabled loos.