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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Gender neutral/disabled toilets

155 replies

chchchnamechanges · 20/08/2018 19:01

I was at a venue which had a sign up for male and female loos with another sign pointing to gender neutral and disabled loos. I went to use the disabled loo and realised that there wasn’t a gender neutral toilet at all, it was a shared gender neutral/disabled toilet.

Is this normal? I’m a bit baffled by it - there’s only one toilet and quite often it’s literally the only one the disabled person can access. Or they urgently need to get to a toilet.

I’m going to write a review of the venue’s accessibility (which promises to be great on its website then isn’t) and I’m not sure if this is totally normal and I’m just being OTT expecting disabled loos to be for disabled people?

OP posts:
Sweetsongbird1 · 20/08/2018 21:29

Disabled toilets are for disabled people because they need them

Ladies toilets are for ladies because we need them

We’ve been fighting this issue for a while now with our much luck. Be prepared to have your rights trampled all over for the trans phenomenon.

Good luck.

auntethel · 20/08/2018 21:32

Giles is right. they can use the toilet that corresponds to their sex

Sweetsongbird1 · 20/08/2018 21:38

So if they have a penis they go in the men’s right ?

Aintnothingbutaheartache · 20/08/2018 21:38

Sweetsong
Women have been fighting for their rights since about 1845
Disability rights were only starting to be recognised in the 1960’s
I appreciate fully that the ‘trans phenomenon ‘ as you call it is a cause that needs to be supported and recognised, but please do not dismiss other minorities that have fought and campaigned for equality

postcardsfrom · 20/08/2018 21:46

For those asking for ‘proof’ re: the harassment and hate crimes against trans people see below. - this is why someone who is trans might use an accessible toilet and try to avoid confrontation, or abuse.
One of my gay friends - not trans- looks very ‘boyish’ and I can’t begin to count the time she has been harrassed, has security called on her or had an angry boyfriend/ husband come at her for using the ladies loos. So she also uses an accessible toilet if she doesn’t feel it’s safe to use the ladies loos.

As a gay woman I frequently receive verbal abuse ( I look ‘straight’ by the way but having a wife and kids in tow can give it away once people figure it out) and I can tell you now it’s absolutely crap to have to put up with this when you’re just trying to go about your day, it can really be upsetting, unsettling, unpleasant or frightening - but trans people have it worse in general because they don’t ‘pass’ as well sometimes.

Key findings in this report give the stats.
www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/lgbt-in-britain-trans.pdf

Or

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/trans-hate-crimes-stats-figures-2017-more-than-third-a8166826.html%3famp

Gileswithachainsaw · 20/08/2018 21:49

Aaah stone wall statistics...

What a surprise.

27 people is not a study. Trans your child or they will kill themselves.

Non bonerwall/mermaids stats please

Sweetsongbird1 · 20/08/2018 21:52

Aint honestly I’m not. I’m just highlighting that we are already having this issue. And by the looks of how things are going - you too are going to have a tough battle (if you use them)

Both situations are related. Your going to lose a facility you need. So are we.

Sweetsongbird1 · 20/08/2018 21:53

Stonewall? Are you having a laughGrin

YesSirCowBoy · 20/08/2018 21:54

What kind of sane non disabled person would inconvenience a person with disabilities?

Disabled loo for disabled people

Female loo for xx chromosome females of all genders

Male loo for xy chromosome males of all genders

Males sort out male violence do not push the problem onto disabled and female people.

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 20/08/2018 21:54

Yep, none of the disabled people who disagree are LGB are they? Course not, there's that common assumption again that mn is all straight white MC women... 🙄

BeyondRadicalisationPortal · 20/08/2018 21:56

Sweet, quite a few disabled women have been fighting the SI issue already, we're not only concerned now it directly affects us re toilets. It already does affect us re healthcare (probably disproportionately so...), prisons, refuges...

Original poster
chchchnamechanges · 20/08/2018 21:56

What kind of sane non disabled person would inconvenience a person with disabilities

Quite a few from reading this thread.

OP posts:
Laiste · 20/08/2018 22:04

Males sort out male violence do not push the problem onto disabled and female people.

Hear hear.

auntethel · 20/08/2018 22:28

postcards, I sympathise but what does any of that have to do with disabled people?

Sweetsongbird1 · 20/08/2018 22:37

She is basically saying ethel she and her friends need a safe space - so they are going to take disabled toilets, as their safe space, regardless of the consequences to disabled people

auntethel · 20/08/2018 22:39

Anyone who would like to know more about transgender issues and what is going to happen if women don't stop it, visit feminist chat. Thread called Frequently Asked Questions, where there are many links and loads of information.

auntethel · 20/08/2018 22:53

postcards, please stop your able bodied friend from using the disabled toilets. I would suggest you report any problems to the police or nearest security officers. Disabled toilets are for disabled people who cannot access any other toilet, unlike yourselves who are fortunate.

auntethel · 20/08/2018 22:59

Thanks sweetsong, I knew what she was getting at. Sick of hearing it, don't know why they all think it's women and disabled people's problems. Have a look at that other thread yourself, it's brilliant! Lot of work went into it.

Sweetsongbird1 · 20/08/2018 23:12

So yeah .. apparently this isn’t a new thing..

Gender neutral/disabled toilets
postcardsfrom · 21/08/2018 18:57

Auntethel - given that the police and or security people are often the perpetrators, no I won’t be.

wrenika · 21/08/2018 19:12

I would describe 'disabled toilets' as 'accessible toilets'...and being able to use a toilet befitting your gender feeling is an accessibility issue, so I'd say it's perfectly acceptable to use the 'disabled toilet' for gender neutral. Honestly, how likely is it that it will cause an issue. And you can't tell when someone has a disability, so how could you make a judgement on anyone using a disabled toilet? How could you tell if someone is using it because of a medical disability (which is not always visible) or whether they are using it because they want the gender neutral facility. It's a complete non-issue.

wrenika · 21/08/2018 19:15

Also, how can 'women' be a minority. We're half the population - we are not a minority. Get over yourselves.

Original poster
chchchnamechanges · 21/08/2018 19:47

We might not be a minority, but we’re crtainly not equal.

Can you honestly not see the issue of disabled toilets being made toilets for all?

OP posts:
Aintnothingbutaheartache · 21/08/2018 19:53

Toilet facilities that have been provided for anyone who might find it difficult to access a toilet that has been provided for general use is a toilet that has been provided for anyone who needs to access a toilet!
I’m not having a trans go here but ffs disabled toilets are for the disabled!!!!!!

YeTalkShiteHen · 21/08/2018 19:55

It's a complete non-issue

If it’s a non issue how come it’s the disabled toilets (because whatever you’ve decided they are, that’s what they actually are) taking the hit? If it’s a non issue why can’t they use any toilet?

Oh because disabled people have to just accept it and suck it up.

Which is pretty much a shorter version of what you just wrote.