To consider ending my marriage over this?

[Conflictedandconfused]

In summary, I’ve just discovered that my husband gambles.

I’m 31, he’s 33 and I cannot stress what a happy marriage we have. We rarely argue and are both pretty low drama people. We’ve been together 12 years (met at Uni).

He always liked a ‘go’ on online gambling sites and racked up quite a bit of debt at Uni. Said he was clearing it.

Fast forward: I am finally pregnant after a long struggle to conceive and am 14 weeks pregnant. We both have well paid jobs and a nice home. Our finances have always been separate. He always said he didn’t want me to be responsible for his debt so we just paid half for everything. I have always said that I don’t like the separate finance element but we’ve never missed a bill or mortgage payment so didn’t have any obvious cause for concern.

I started having strong feelings that something wasn’t right. He asked to borrow £2,000 from me to ‘tide him over until his expenses were paid’ and I gave it to him.

Fast forward and I caught him gambling online early Saturday morning and was furious.

He’s confessed that his debts are still at circa £20k and he has been regularly gambling. I feel like my world has shattered. He’s distraught.

Looking back, I have enabled by always jumping in to pay for everything as I thought he was working hard to pay off debt (he pays about £700 per month on a consolidation loan). He won’t admit it but I suspect he gets back to square one by using a credit card to get by after wasting hundreds in a gambling session. He confessed that he does this a few times a week.

By contrast I am cautious with money and save. I always planned to take a short maternity leave (not too short, 5 months perhaps) because it was always in my mind that he we wouldn’t be able to survive without my salary and I would need to use a lot of my savings to cover our mortgage. Talking of which, I have savings of approx £25k. Just trying to paint a full picture.

Does anyone have any experience of this? What on earth do I do now? I feel utterly fraudulent being pregnant, life looking rosy on the outside when in reality, my marriage feels like it’s over this morning.

Conflictedandconfused Mon 20-Aug-18 18:23:32

"I just wonder what he’d be like if I wasn’t so self sufficient. I work really hard to juggle a full time job, keep the house beautiful and in order, provide varied, nice food and save money. I am low maintenance, I don’t demand presents and things."

I made a similar mistake I was dating someone who would drop hints that he didnt like materialistic people. So i felt i had to show him that i wasnt.

I ended up dating someone who would time me in the shower and begrudged buying toilet roll.

He was also 9 thousand in debt which he didnt want to talk about and wouldnt be honest about. I left him. We never lived together. Staying the odd weekend at his was enough for the mask to drop.

NOW if i had posted on here all those years ago i would have got told by some on here "his finances are none of your business You are only dating" Yet in the past ive also seen the same posters coming out with "well surely you should have known this" when someone has posted further down the line.

The whole point of dating though is to find out if you are compatible. And it is NOT materialistic to expect a certain standard of living. Toilet roll and showers are not a luxury.

Never bend over backwards to try and prove you are not materialistic or to try and prove you are low maintenance. Because there are some men who will take advantage.

picklepost

My old man hit rock bottom before he was able to admit that there was a problem. I told him that I would take the kids back to my parents when we got a letter from the building society to say that if we could not make payments they would re-possess.

I am pretty sure he had PTSD from serving in Northern Ireland and the Falklands in late 70s/early 80s was at the root of his problems, but when you have kids, they have to come first.

Against all odds we got through it and will celebrate our 36th wedding anniversary on 28 August.

So sorry OP.

I work really hard to juggle a full time job, keep the house beautiful and in order, provide varied, nice food and save money. I am low maintenance, I don’t demand presents and things. I allow him all the freedom he wants. I’m not blowing my own trumpet but I look back and wonder how he could have such little respect for me.

Yes, it's the lack of respect that's so hurtful. I was in a slightly similar situation, partner wasnt exactly a gambling addict, he was addicted to spending money though including gambling. I was like you, a good saver. At one point I had an apartment bought, and £25k saved. He had £50 debt and nothing to show for it (hidden but eventually I found out). Do you think he respected my hard work? Was he inspired to make changes because I showed him it was possible? Nope, not at all. In fact he saw me as a loser for bothering to work hard, and stupid for not understanding that he was going to win big any moment.

I didn't want to leave the relationship and initially considered taking the steps suggested above by pps. However it's impossible to really control someone's finances.

• Even if you control their accounts, they can always get access by going in to the bank with a passport or similar.
• They can get secret credit cards - he probably has several secret cards already. Like your partner, mine ironically had an excellent credit rating, as he always made the minimum payments on time (with money borrowed from other sources)
• Might get pay day loans or borrow money off friends.
• Self exclusion from credit and gambling sites can be removed. Also no matter how many you do, there is always going to be a site out there not covered. There is always going to gamble in person, or a newsagent to buy scratchies.

£50k debt, not £50! If only!

Thursday, thank you. Christ, 50k. He’s actually confessed tonight that the real figure is more. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not far off 50k too.

Turns out you can even exercise ‘mind over matter’ with early pregnancy tiredness!!! I’ve been wide awake since 3am so that’s 4 hours sleep in 48 hours.

I’ve stripped him bare tonight. If I’d had a gun I’d have shot him. He’s just taking it. I’ve even shown him this thread because he was initially trying to minimise his actions “it’ll be fine, I’ll easily pay it off in 2 years”. He may or may not still be reading but I don’t really give a shit.

The crippling sadness has made way for anger on an unimaginable scale now. We have ‘separated’ and he will stay in the spare room during the week and can piss off elsewhere at weekends. I’ve requested a full credit report to be produced ASAP.

Throughout the relentless months spent on the infertility hamster wheel (it’s not a rollercoaster as there are no highs) I had moments where I was so low (usually straight after a failure) that towards the end I was at breaking point. I managed to pick myself up after allowing myself one day of wallowing because I couldn’t bear to think of my mum and dad and husband suffering by allowing them to worry about me. I never missed a single day of work, I stayed on track and tried to keep everything as normal as possible.

My mum and dad were the only constants through this. They kept us quite literally afloatx, picking us up and dusting us down month after month. We never protected them from the despair and the worry that it might never happen, they knew everything. I saw them age through the stress. Obviously other people felt for us and willed it to happen but no one (I had to protect my brother and grandparents from it because it affected them so much) but if we’d fallen off a cliff with the stress there’d would have been no one else that would have noticed in time. My husband and dad became very close and he mentioned last night that he wants to come clean to my dad because he’s probably the only person he can talk to as a friend. Husband has friends coming out of his arse but they’re all decent successful human beings (in the way I thought we were too. Ha!) and he wouldn’t want to ruin the facade and besides, I’m not really up for public humiliation and people pitying me.

During our infertility, i always had to respond “fine thanks” with a cheery smile when every fucker asked casually (as you do in convo) how I was. Agony. When I got pregnant I was relieved that I could finally answer truthfully because I had everything I ever wanted. Now the reality behind “fine thanks” is that we are living separate lives, albeit under the same roof. My world has shattered and I have no one to turn to. I can’t believe that people have such a different experience of waiting for their baby. I don’t want my baby to think this is normal. I grew up with parents who never argued in front of us and it breaks my heart to think that my baby could grow up in a loveless family. This makes me think it’s not possible to stay together.

I can’t reconcile the shock that my marriage is over. Whatever the outcome, we will
Never have a normal marriage. I married him because he had so many qualities I looked for: kind, funny, thoughtful of others, ambitious. I thought I knew him. This was all a lie and I loved him so much. I gave everything to our marriage. It seems like a sick joke that the truth would out just as there’s no turning back - our baby will be here in less than 6 months (hopefully, I suddenly don’t ‘feel’ pregnant but that’s probably the stress and the scan on Wednesday will reveal all anyway), and I’m forever tied to this man.

If we have a girl I will ensure this never happens to her. Before Sunday, he was exactly the man I’d want my daughter to marry. She can use her grandad as this example now. And as I said before, I’m not some sad “daddy’s girl” who thinks the sun shines out of his arse.

I have an indescribable new respect for
Single parents who find themselves in the position of rebuilding their lives and raising their child alone. I’m going to look
Into selling the house and I am strangely comforted by the idea of not feeling worried about money all the time. Obviously I’ll need to downsize but we’ll have enough to get something lovely for baby and I. I still worry about what he’ll do - where will he go, how will he live? I’m worried that he’ll do something stupid. I’ve got a sick feeling that surely this will get worse and there’ll be more to deal with and I’ve only just scraped the surface.

Sorry for the long post but I’m terrified and alone and it’s oddly helpful to diarise my thoughts.

I can’t thank you all enough for all the help
Here. I usually lurk on MN but wow, what an unbelieveable resource this is when you are at your lowest ebb.

What I should say is that I don’t want him to tell my dad. This would break his heart. I am so ashamed of my life because I can’t bear to admit that everything has been a lie and I’ve been too stupid to notice sooner.

If my parents die of a heart attack through any more stress I will have no one.

Sorry for multiple posts. Where would I even begin in telling my friends about this, even if it does reach the point that it is too difficult to face this completely on my own?

Oh OP

I haven’t been following the thread, but I just saw your recent posts and had to respond. My heart goes out to you in your terrible sadness. I truly wish you all the best with the baby and I hope you build a lovely happy life with you and your child

Your husband has let you down so so badly

Something I haven’t seen mentioned here, which I think is very important, is that gamblers will get money from any source they can. When they can no longer borrow from friends, family, or legitimate financial institutions, they will turn to loan sharks and other such individuals - dangerous characters who will think nothing of threatening harm to you and your child if he doesn’t pay up.
Protect your child, OP, whatever it takes.

HollowTalk Mon 20-Aug-18 22:33:56
@picklepost, the OP has discovered that her husband has been lying and gambling for twelve years. She has to go back after maternity leave early because of him. I don't think your comments are helpful.

I don't actually care what you think. Unlike you - and just about everyone in this thread - I have a clue about this subject. So do bugger off.

CrystalMazing Mon 20-Aug-18 22:52:01
@picklepost I assume you are either a recovered addict or in a relationship with one.

Yes I am a recovered addict. Who is lucky enough to have had a partner who understood what partnership and love means. Unlike you.

Every addict I have known (yes, more than one) lies, manipulates and protects their addiction more than their own children.

Every addict you've known? well, that settles it. Never mind the research and data, CrystalMazing here has it all worked out following her deep research of a handful of mates.

Honestly, the absolute CRAP trotted out in this thread is mindblowing. Difficult to know whether to laugh or cry. I'll go with laughing...

OP, please do tell your parents. I understand that you're worried about causing them more stress, after supporting you through your infertility, but how can you hide this from them? It just won't work in practical terms. If you split up they won't be able to understand why, and if you stay together then it's even more important they (and other trusted friends) know. Firstly because you can't carry this alone (remember it's your husband who should be feeling humiliated not you - you have done nothing wrong) and secondly because, as others have pointed out, your husband may try to borrow money from them with a plausible reason, and if they don't know the truth they may say yes.

But picklepost, even if it's true that not all addicts lie, you can't mean that the OP's husband falls into that category? He's been lying to her for 12 years and is still lying now.

So, scarily the many posters who said the £20k figure he has confessed to would in actual fact be much higher, have been proved correct. The trouble is you can never be sure if the figure he gives you next is the real one either. He may not even know himself.

I think you need to seek legal advice asap OP to distance yourself from him and his debts, and as others have said, check your own credit rating. Is the house in your name?

You need to look after yourself and your child first. The anger will carry you through OP. So sorry you are going through this.

OP your doing the right thing. Gamblers are no different to drug addicts. They are sneaky and devious and there addiction ruins not only their lives but those around them. He has lied and will continue to do so. He will be expecting you to calm down and when he promises to get help he will go back to normal and be even more devious. As in truth he would only be saying what you want to hear. His gambling addiction is something he needs to deal with. It might take 20yrs and sadly a baby on its way is likely to make no difference either to his addiction. As dreadful as it sounds, separating now is probably the best outcome for you and your baby.

Op, can I suggest you call gamcare and arrange counselling for yourself. You have a lot to process and unravel.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it but you could also try gamanon which is the GA for family members.

@picklepost I assume you wanted recovery but does he? Did you confess or were you caught out?

I wouldn't of expect my husband to stick by me if I wasn't 100% committed to getting better.

Maybe you didn't lie but I stand by what I say that the vast majority do.
I understand how you feel about sweeping statements. The one above about borrowing from loan sharks. I never did but a fair number will and I would say the majority will hit up pay day loans. Again, I didnt.

I think you have made the right decision OP. It doesn't sound like he understands that the issues are about lying as well as gambling.

Tell your parents, you will need their support.

Oh OP you poor thing. Please don't feel embarrassed or as though you can't tell people. You have done nothing wrong, in fact you have done everything right so you have nothing to be ashamed of.
You have had an absolutely horrendous shock and you just feel utterly out of control but don't try and make any rash decisions now as you are probably not in the right frame of mind. Any decisions about splitting up, sellkng the house, where you'll live etc don't have to be made today. Give yourself permission to not do anything until next week as you'll be in a different head space.
You need to talk to somebody in real life Asap as you must feel very alone so I agree that you should call a gambling helpline. Other people with have been down this road before you so they'll be able to give you a map and help you through it.
Please let us know how you get in over the next few days. You've got a lot of people who want the besy for you.

God I am so sorry OP, please PM me if I can be of any help - Ex Wife of a massive gambler here.

This will be your lowest point but it will get better, you will get through this because now you have to for your baby

I have a lot less sympathy for him than a lot of pp. My advice would be to take control of 100% of his finances and ensure he stays away or if that’s not possible, to ltb now whilst it’s not so bad.

I grew up quite nicely middle-class, went to a mix of state and private schools, had a beautiful home that had been my mums dream since she was a teenager. She’d always worked really hard and had been saving religiously since she first started work at 16. We were living abroad for a short amount of time, due to my dads work and things were a lot more expensive there than the UK.

My dad lost all their money overnight we went from everything to nothing. We dropped out of our private school in the midst of my GCSE’s, sold everything we had including our TV, books etc just for food, had to move back to the UK very suddenly at the end of August so neither of us had schools, our house in the UK was rented at the time so we stayed with grandparents until we could move back into our own house, five of us in one room because we couldn’t afford anything else. My mum cried every night and developed extreme anxiety and tbh my dad did work hard to try to fix things but that involved borrowing more and more from different people and banks etc until he was swimming in debt. He couldn’t pay of everything so that’s when it got nasty.

He got beat up a lot, people that he owed started throwing bricks throw our windows in the middle of the night, broke our cctv cameras and set fire to the cars in the driveway with a petrol bomb. We patched up every window and had firefighters come round to help us put stuff around the house to diffuse any arson attack. My youngest brother was only one at the time, they sent notes through the letterbox threatening to kidnap him - he didn’t go to nursery for years because we were scared. And the home that my mum had saved for my whole life? Well we couldn’t live in it because they knew where we were and she couldn’t bare to sell it so it’s just sitting there as a shell currently - over ten years since this has happened. My dad has slowly paid off some debt - almost a million pounds but he still owes a lot more. My parents will never financially recover from this and my mum will probably never emotionally recover. She has nightmares all the time and really bad anxiety and my mum and three siblings now live in a tiny two bed flat.

None of this was from gambling but it could easily have been. I’m sorry for the essay, this is something I never talk about so it all came out in one go. Its been about 10 years since this and I’m nicely married with a good job etc but I still clearly remember scrounging through the sofas looking for spare change to buy a small box of McDonald’s nuggets to share with the entire family for dinner. I have no words for how terrifying the whole thing was, please think carefully about your child’s future.

OP I agree with pp, don’t do anything right now except get RL help.

Whether you stay with him or not, you need support right now and you have to find out the whole extent of his debts.

You sound level headed but angry, you’ll work out what’s best for you and baby, I’m sure. That’s all that counts.
All the best.

Oh, Confused, you poor thing! He lied about what he owed, which he wasn't even going to tell you about until you caught him gambling, tried to minimise (I can pay it back), then tried to take it over (I'll tell your father). He's still not owning this and the best course of action is to split because you will never be able to be secure with him. 12 years is a long time to lie, he was planning to continue lying, too, if you hadn't found him out.

Christ OP you poor, poor woman.
Your post is one of the most heart breaking things I’ve read and your pain is palpable.

FWIW I know a lot of people have mentioned GA etc. But I think you are doing the right thing by separating. If he wants to go Tonight GA let him drive it. You have a child to think of and a new life to build.

The breach of trust and having to police him for the rest of your life would be a deal breaker for me. I simply couldn’t do it - it would break my heart every day and I would end up a ball of anger and resentment.

While I know right now you feel the shame is crushing you have to keep reminding yourself it is not your shame. You have done nothing wrong - He has betrayed you horribly.

Please consider confiding in your mum, you will need real world support.
In the short term try and focus on self care (nutrition exercise, relaxing/enjoyable activities) and practical steps.
Longer term, the next couple of years may be a bit rough but you come across as mature, responsible and level headed. More importantly you sound strong - You will get through it.

Confused I do think you would be better off divorcing him now. Build a life for yourself and your baby and don't look back. He has had 12 years to choose to recover and he has not done so.

Pickle you may be the exception that proves the rule, but too many of us have lived with addicts. In my case I fought for him for 7 years and he did fuck all to make any changes. How much more suffering should I have accepted for myself and my DDs - one of whom was showing flags for PTSD? I loved my H dearly. The problem was that he loved alcohol more than he loved us or himself. Your partner may have been a saint - the rest of us are human beings who are allowed their own lives, wellbeing and happiness. We are not bad people for not wanting to sacrifice ourselves on the altar of the addict in our lives.

Honestly OP, tell your parents.

You need their support more than anything else right now. They would be devastated to know that you are going through this alone.

Your husband does not need or deserve your father's friendship and support. There are specialist organisations who can help gambling addicts and that is where he should turn.

YOU are the one that has had the shock of a lifetime.
YOU are one one that has to come to terms with your life as you knew it being a lie.
YOU are the one who is pregnant AND their daughter.

If your baby was ever in your situation, would you want to know?

Honestly your parents sound magnificent. Please, please talk to them.