Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

Good luck with school magic IPSEA have really helpful advice regarding the Law. SENSOS are also brilliant. They offer all kinds of services, things such checking draft EHCP’s before they are finalised. The also have a solicitor on hand for more tricky situations.

Are you PATOSS trained in assessing dyslexia?

Dyslexic presents in many different ways spelling, spatial awareness, writing, speech, ability to organise thoughts, working memory.

These children are also exhausted after a day of school that when parents tell you their child was too tired or they don’t read at home. The tiredness probably explains it

Claw001

I was just wondering how parents could manage to get adjustments if they were not needed. I’m assuming parents cannot just say it’s needed and it’s given.

Exam boards don't work entirely from EHCPs. If a pupil has worked and there is evidence of reasonable adjustments over a period of time exam boards will allow schools to make provision for special arrangements.

for instance if your child has poor handwriting skills and always/almost always uses a laptop/computer/word processing unit they could be eligible for extra time in the exams and a word processor.

Boney thanks for explaining, so some evidence is needed. I got the impression from the post, which mentioned it, that some parents were fabricating needs and fiddling the system to get extra adjustments!

Claw001
You do need a report but not by an EdPsych and some assessors give them out like candy. I know of a few schools who have a teacher trained in the relevant qualification who gets time off timetable to process all the sudden requests for extra time.
Equally, enough parents talk about what do say to a doctor to get a doctor note foe separate settings etc (nobody is going to chance not giving it and the child usually never ends up being referred to CAMHS).

The whole thing is a game. If you have well informed middle class parents who push and know the system then access arrangements are a piece of piss. Pick something small enough to not really need any support or resources but gets your kid what they (you) want.

If you have a child with very real struggles and who genuinely needs additional support and provision (like you see on these boards regualrly) then trying to navigate the system is a bloody nightmare.
It really, really pisses me off. Every year I help parents and children fight for suppoet their child needs and every year around March the last minute middle class requests for arrangements come in and get granted.

Really Maisie I’m surprised, it used to be either an EP or a specialist teacher with specific training who would have to assess and recommend.

Although, I’m not really up to date with the exam process and adjustments.

Yes. It's surprisingly common.

I know of ex teachers who've done the extra qualification and have gone into business assessing.

The in house staff have done the specialist training, but can give them out more readily than class work would suggest (Because school results, league tables etc). As another poster said, it's how you get schools with very high academic intakes suddenly getting a seriously high % of access arrangements.

Some schools I've worked in staff have even been given a final deadline to apply to have y11s assessed because there has to be enough time to collect evidence that it's the child's usual way of working. In reality, I've seen some cases where students get extra time granted Easter before exams start.

It doesn't cost the school any extra if it's in house. It might get a couple of higher grades. In y10/11 it doesn't require any TA input or intervention. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone who gets them is lying, but I do think a lot of KS4 non EdPsych assessments seem to be stretching the definitions of reasonable access arrangements (a bit like old coursework moderation when it was a case of 'what's the highest we can reasonably push this through?')
Some parents fund their own and find their own assessor if they aren't happy that school can't find anything. There's a lot of parents in leafy schools who'll start asking about SEND assessments at the first sign of difficulty at GCSE (even when it's a normal just not grasping a topic or 2 / finding the jump to GCSE tough)

Moving from a more working class school (where you'd have a job trying to push through assessments for those who so obviously needed it and where a reasomable proportion of students did have literacy issues linked to early language development) to a leafy school was absolutely eye opening.

That is shocking! I cannot really comment further, as I don’t know much about it.

I assume the only adjustment they would get would be extra time? As laptops, scribes, readers etc would have to be their usual way of learning?

I'll admit I've only read the first half of this thread, and am reading the responses with interest. The thing that sticks out a mile for me is that the OP says her child has 'severe learning difficulties' Or 'disabilities' which is used more in recent times.

Without trying to give offence to OP, I think he/she needs to do some research into what constitutes a SLD because if she continues to use this 'label', then she won't be taken seriously. If her son is verbal, continent, physically sound, can have a conversation and can be naughty enough to get a detention in a mainstream school, then he does not have a severe learning disability.

A mild learning disability, behavioural problems, delayed development, call it that.
But don't call it 'severe' learning difficulties when it's actually not.

Because that pisses everybody off, professionals and colleagues and probably friends and neighbours. And teachers. But most particularly parents of children who actually do have catastrophically severe learning difficulties. Or disabilities. Call it what you will.

I still use the term 'mentally handicapped' to the horror of some recently qualified medics and care personnel. I've been pulled up on it a few times. I try hard not to, but my daughter was diagnosed 30 years ago as 'mentally handicapped' and it's just stuck.
I do not see it as a derogatory term. It's what she is.
So my advice to OP is that, when you present your case to the powers that be, please do not use the term SLD. Because your son clearly, from your posts, does not have SLD.

They can tell if you are over-egging the pudding.

Claw001
Correct.
Extra time and separate room are the big hitters for last minute KS4 requests.

It really pisses me off because I've spent probably thousands of hours helping parents get evidence to support the need for EdPsyc assessments, helping find ways for assistive technology to work for the child in my subject, on the phone to worried parents, backing parents to senior staff saying 'this parent has a point; their child needs some support etc and whilst doing all of that there's

The thing is that the teacher with additional specialist training is usually only trained in some specific learning difficulties so can comment on reading speed, handwriting speed etc but can't comment much on 'big' SEND needs.

It's not unheard of to get calls from (what I would call but I know you hate the phrase so sorry) over anxious parents because Sarah got a 6 in her mocks and she needs at least an 8 or a 9. She says she ran out of time in the mocks. How do we get her extra time? She says her hand was really aching after the exams so we think she might have slow handwriting speed. The reality is that Sarah is doing just fine, her class work is an 8, we don't predict or give out grade 9s and she needs to work on her exam technique because there's still 9 months to go and we haven't finished the course.

Ultimately, it makes no odds trying to see if Sarah can qualify for 10% extra time because it's not going to affect anything big in school. But trying to get Charlotte her ASD diagnosis can take years to even start the process even when staff and parents are all saying it's a route that neess to be gone down because that involves more outaide agencies and LAs are reluctant to hand out EHCPs.

and whilst doing all of that there's... parents openly discussing pushing their 15 year old evidently NT child for x y z assessment. Been fine through school, no issues but now suddenly they think dyslexia or dyspraxia or (go to one) 'slower processing' or 'slower handwriting'. I've had parents tell me that when I've said I don't have the authority to give their child the option to sit exams outside the exam hall "oh well I'll speak to Amy's mum because she's just managed to get a letter from the GP".
(Deleted part of my paragraph)

The main taste in my mouth left by this thread is that for every child that really does need support/adjustments/EHCPs/special school/exam exceptions due to their real, actual and born-with SN -

there's more that don't need the same level of support, and either get it or have parents push for it. And there also those that have SEN (or not) for reasons that are within 'parental control' and not an underlying SN.

And it is all of the latter that forms the view that, in the main, parents and their dc are the latter kind. So many examples of the latter kind here, from Teachers, who say this is because they hardly believe it when it really is the real kind.

Human nature I suppose, that's life.

And just another excuse for me to say...."It's Over, it's over..yahooo"

And I think it's time for a little role reversal - having patiently watched Claw and Pen go head-to head for ages of pages.

Scenario:

Me, Claw, OP and other Parents of SN Children have the Power and Influence to advise and give our opinion to the Decision-makers about which Teachers are allowed to educate our dc and act as gate-keepers preventing other Teachers from accessing the career enhancements that this may bring.

They might even have to leave Teaching altogether because 'we have our opinion'.

So we get to Pen.

My opinion is that she is on here so often because she isn't actually on 'holiday' or even 'holiday-working' but on ML and is very "over-anxious" about whether she can return to Teaching and that she is 'projecting' her unrealistic anxieties onto the SN Parents.

My colleagues nod in agreement as it sounds possible as we have come across 'her sort' before.

We label Peng and she never knows.

And I could have been completely wrong.

HateIsNotGood
The system is crap (in my opinion).

The longer I'm in the system the more I find myself frustrated seeing how/where funding and support goes vs where it doesn't.

If I had to summarise how I feel as an educator inside the system then it would be a bit like this: if you have a pushy middle class parent and they are claiming minor inconveniences for exam access arrangements then you'll probably get what you want, but if you're a KS3 student who desperately needs intervention, TA support, other funded options, ECHP etc then ultimately home and school can work together and battle an infuriating system and the odds will be stacked against you.

HateIsNotGood

Much as I enjoyed your scenario, it would be interesting to see what would happen if you were allowed to choose the teacher that your child was going to be taught by.

In the end you would have Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms X has a good reputation for teaching children with SEND. Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms Y doesn't.

ALL those parents -that want the best for their children- go for Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms X. S/he know has a class entirely comprised of SEND pupils minimal support and parents complaining that they were misled.

Yes Maisy the system is crap - for the people that actually live it day to day - the dc, the parents and the teaching teachers.

Forgetting the MC pushy-parents (red herring) and I don't think that all the blame lies at the Government's door either. The real problem lies with HTs/SLT and the structure of LEAs, where very incompetent workers thrive and the competent only stick for as long as they can before they leave.

I've come across some right bastard and some very stupid HTs - and they were all career-driven and ultimately couldn't give a t'ss for anyone but themselves.

And they were young blokes that filled levels of responsibility that they wouldn't have except the female teachers had too much to juggle in the main.

I think you know what I mean.....most teachers do.

Actually Boney no - in my scenario we have our own bases for opinion based on our own experiences as Professional Parents of DC With SN; just like parents have their own scenarios that don't fit the focus of educational opinion in the 'real world of SN and Educational 'opinion'.

C'mon Boney it's Role Play - imagine it the other way. Have some Fun!

HateIsNotGood

But i am going on what you posted

You said

give our opinion to the Decision-makers about which Teachers are allowed to educate our dc

I have just expanded on that.

Ok my Bone - I was being uncharacteristically frivolous, as a distraction from actually working - you have to admit that Education and SN isn't often associated with having a bit of fun.

If I really have to repart my words, substantiate, refer to and provide evidence, I'll duck for now - if I have to use logical brain I may as well get on with work outstanding.

I'll try and come back tomorrow with logi-brain engaged.

Sadly no balloons and partay tonight - you must understand ds and I are Survivors of the Crap System, even if you are still in it.

I've just read some more. And I can see that we are talking about quite mild LD. In fact, LD that we're not all that sure if there is a LD or if it might just be behavioural.

My daughter's close friend is a teacher. She has troublesome pupils in a local school that nobody wants to teach at. Because it's well known for having unruly pupils who all know their rights, but don't think they have any responsibilities.

My daughter's teacher friend is at her wit's end, because she wants and loves to teach, yet there are are three or four kids in the class who just want to cause chaos.
And stop any proper learning.

When I was at school, you did what the teacher told you to do.
No question. If you did something wrong, you'd get told off by the teacher, then when you got home, you'd get told off again by your parents.

Not now. Now, the parents charge into the classroom and start an argument with the teacher because you remonstrated with their child.

I'm really glad that my children are all grown up, and have been imbued with a sense of general social courtesy.

Well two of them have. The other has severe learning difficulties and has no sense of any social rules at all. She's non verbal, doubly incontinent, epileptic, has problems with balance so can't walk without support. That's really proper SLD.

My other children have just had to put up with it. And to reference another thread, where a mother was overwhelmed by the thought of having to care for her 3 young children for 5 days on her own while her husband took his daughter off for a treat in NY

My husband worked away 5 days a week. He had to. It was his job.

I didn't have, and do not have any friends or family to help. I looked after my children because they are my children. Now, I still have my 35 year old severely handicapped daughter at home with me and I look after her as you would have to look after a child.

I write all this to inform the OP that she does not have a child with
a severe learning disability. She would be taken more seriously if she didn't over dramatise.

Don't tell everyone on mumsnet that you have a child with severe learning difficulties if you actually don't have a child with severe learning difficulties. Because there are going to be people on her who actually does have a child with SLD.

And you are going to upset people, if you claim to have a child with severe learning difficulties. When you actually don't.

HateIsNotGood
I don't think it is a red herring. I think it's part of a wider problem in the way the whole SEND area is set up.
The whole system (in my experience) seems to benefit a particular type of parent pushing for fairly minimal needs and is a pain in the arse for everyone else.

Mainstream schools aren't set up or funded properly to deal with an increasing range of needs.
Funding to provide lots of bespoke support is almost non-existent.
CAMHS and EdPsychs are really hard to get access to so major issues (the ones that need the most support early on) tend to be the things that drag on despite home and school being on the same page.
There's sometimes not enough differentiation between what someone needs to be able to learn and what someone prefers (and sometimes we get quite confrontational calls from parents telling us we aren't doing our job properly because their child had to do X today and didn't want to so they shouldn't have been made to).
There's a grey area between what is SEND needs and what's behaviour. Not all SEND children display challenging behaviour and not all badly behaved children have SEND (though I've been shot at for saying that on MN)
The vast majority of parents are totally reasonable, very supportive and are fabulous to work with.
The vast majority of teachers are genuinely just trying to do their best for the children in their care and want them all to thrive. Sometimes we get it spot on. Sometimes we make mistakes. Sometimes (often) it's a case of balancing competing and at times contradictory needs and preferences but we do our best.
Most senior leaders that I've worked with do genuinely want students to do well. Sometimes they're a bit out of touch with life day to day at the chalk face.

OK, let's attack OP because she misuses the word severe.

It is obvious she means 'severe' to mean that her child presents, to the unqualified and prejudiced, as neurotypical, but to those qualified and unprejudiced as 'severe'.

Because those with the most severe and obvious disability have that recognized from an early age. Not to say that those parents have it easy, but they don't have the same fight to have their child's needs recognized, to be treated as 'that parent' and be attacked by the people who have a duty of care.

maisy I quite agree.

My issue is with asserting that in any situation where school and parent are in conflict, the parent is inevitably being unreasonable (ànd entitled, having a 'reputation', etc). Which, if you read the thread, is what those such as pengggwn maintain.

Not to mention that it is very unlikely that schools will conspire to make false allegations, despite more than one poster with a child with SN saying this has happened to them. Of course we could be lying - but why assume that?

Again, you are being very unreasonable. There is a very big difference between being unwilling to make reasonable adjustments for a child with a disability and being concerned about your own safety. Teachers aren't legal experts; of course they are worried that this judgement (whether or not it does) enters into law a precedent that means they have to teach people who are going to be violent towards them. It doesn't mean they don't sympathise with the children.

You did notice that I was talking about what the judgment said, didn't you, Pengggwn? If anyone was being unreasonable (in your view) it was the judge.

The judgment isn't that difficult to read, and it has also been summarised on various sites and in various newspapers and magazines. There is nothing in it that says teachers will have to teach violent children; it makes it clear that children with ASD can be excluded for violent behaviour in an appropriate case. All that the judgment does is reinstate the protection of the Equality Act for such children, and it means that if a school is considering excluding in these circumstances it needs to consider whether it has made reasonable adjustments - including, in particular, considering whether it put in place adequate support for the pupil to prevent the circumstances leading to violent conduct from arising in the first place.

Ooops I popped back - yes Maisy most parents, teachers and schools do want to work together But, whilst there are the pushy MC parents there are also really bad HTs and if you happen to come under the 'throes' of at least 1 of the 4 I came across (the loons I describe over and over) then you would be saying 'omerta'.

Look, ds went to school, it didn't go to plan we had life before and we have a new life again.

Fortunately, now, what any teacher thinks about either ds or me now is neither here nor there - couldn't give a flying horse's ass.

But, I will never forget either - the good, the bad and the ugly.

Tea and toast and bed.