Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

thehog I agree, dx isn’t made on teachers opinion. Help and support the child receives is very much based on teachers opinion (without an EHCP or professional report) which most undiagnosed children do not have.

Help and support the child receives is very much based on teachers opinion (without an EHCP or professional report) which most undiagnosed children do not have.

So, without those factual bases for offering the additional support, whose opinion do you think should be used, if not that of the person teaching them?

peng you are not qualified to assess a parents level of anxiety or the causes! You are not qualified to assess if they have anything to worry about! As you’ve stated you are not qualified to identity SEN, therefore you wouldn’t know if they have anything to worry about!

peng I did not say a teacher should not decided the level of support, without an EHCP or professional report. My point was if teacher has the opinion parents are over anxious ie parent has nothing to worry about. The child would not get that support!

‘Over anxious’ parent = very unhelpful label, that serves absolutely no purpose!

Claw001

Again, you seem confused. I am not saying I am qualified to assess anything. The SENCO is the point of contact for deciding whether or not there is sufficient evidence to seek a diagnosis for a child with regards to their learning and development at school.

What I am asking is how the SENCO is supposed to make that decision? Why shouldn't they seek professional views from the people teaching the child, on what is going on with that child? There is no medical evidence, so that isn't there to help them. They don't see the child on a daily basis on the classroom, the teacher does.

Again, can I emphasise, I am not saying teachers are qualified to make decisions about SEN. But I am the best-placed person to contribute to the SENCO's view of what is going on in the classroom, and I can, if I believe it is relevant, offer my opinion on any interactions with home.

I see no issue with that.

Secondly, you appear to be confused about what it means to know if there is anything to worry about. Of course I know whether there are any learning concerns to worry about. If they are learning and progressing just like everyone else, I know this. If not, I know this. I may not know why, but I can offer an opinion just like the parent can.

Anyway, you are right - we are going in circles. Suggest we drop it.

An example My son ‘masks’ without a diagnosis, professionals expert reports or an EHCP. A teacher would not know my son has any difficulties. Totally not the teachers fault, they are not experts in SEN.

However, just because they are not experts in SEN and cannot see the difficulties doesn’t give them the right to assess me as ‘over anxious’ mum and have nothing to worry about because they don’t see what I do!

You cannot have it both ways. You are either qualified to identify SEN or you are not. If you are not qualified to identify SEN, then you are also not qualified to label anyone as ‘over anxious’ and having nothing to worry about!

Yes totally agree, let’s drop it! We are not going to agree

claw but bad apples aside, why would any teacher deliberately choose not to have support in the classroom for a dc that is making their job more difficult, regardless of what the teacher thinks the cause is? Rather it's the other way, teachers want more support.

Thehog there is no deliberately involved! I’m 100% sure most teachers are not malicious!

Lots of kids with SN’s do not make a teachers life difficult or interfere with the learning of others. Lots of kids with SN are not the stereotypical chair throwers! Lots are quite, well behaved.

Lots stay under the radar. Just because you cannot see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist! Labels for parents, very unhelpful!

Claw, what about the parent that picks their child up stinking of weed or drink? What about the parent who called them an "effin little c@nt" in the playground. What about the parent who whilst being told that little Jonny punched another child is too busy on their phone to take any notice of what the teacher is telling them. Should the teacher not have an opinion on those parents either?

Teacher should report them to the relevant agency if they have safeguarding concerns!

Claw001
Teacher should report them to the relevant agency if they have safeguarding concerns!

We report to the relevant person in the school. it is there job to report to external agencies and chase up any responses.

So it's OK to label some parents just not others?

Boney ok to the relevant person, who can report to relevant agency regarding safeguarding concerns!

tit huh?! I’m not quite sure what your point is! No one is labelling anyone! Teacher should pass for relevant action! Same as parental concerns regarding undiagnosed SEN!

By difficult I wasn't just referring to disruptive dc, but to the wide range of responsibilities a teacher has. So eg the child who isn't going to reach their targets because of emotional/ behavioural difficulties.

The dc that might not be causing themselves any problems or disrupting lessons but is behaving towards others in a way that throws up more work for the teacher with the other dc/ their parents.

I'm not disputing what you say about masking, but in reality a teacher wouldn't get support for a dc purely on that basis. Ditto for academically able dc that are still achieving and well behaved in school, even if the sn is masking their true ability and their behaviour is a mask for how they cope once safely at home.

I think too that some of the problems arise because support is assessed on an individual level, with no allowances for how that works practically when others have conflicting needs. Dd has two friends, both of whom only require very minor, easy adjustments in terms of environment/ methods etc, and certainly don't need classroom support for behaviour. But put both together in the same classroom and it would be carnage, even with a 1:1 each neither would be in a state they could learn anything. And yet any assessment for support would simply work on the basis both have very little need. Worse still in a school environment the other parents would likely be ignorant about the other dc also having conflicting symptoms/ behaviours because of their sn, so even with a good teacher it would simply appear the teacher was being obstructive in refusing to adhere to a few minor adjustments.

But that doesn't mean all teachers should be banned from offering opinions because some are ill informed/ blatant liars. And ultimately the decision as to whether to pursue dx, what support is needed etc isn't made on the back of the teachers opinion.
This.
I can think of countless times I've said a child should be put forward for assessment (often with parental support) and got nowhere. One class teacher's opinion isn't going to stop a diagnosis.

Some parents are over anxious. They do call up repeatedly about non issues. They do call up to make demands well beyond what's in their child's access profiles based on 'but DC prefers / we think...' That's all well and good, but as an inclusive teacher I work my arse off to support all students and meet access needs as much as possible; I just stop short of pandering to any and every demand made of me.

I can think of one situation where we put a child forward for assessment based on a parents view alone. We had zero concerns. I had to do some of the 1-1s and documents for the LA. The child was actually really upset because he felt home were trying to change his personality. Obviously I'm not going to share details on a public forum, but absolutely no issues were found and the child spoke freely about how he disliked his parents obsession with making him 'get help.

Claw001

I am actually in agreement with you that it adds no value to a safeguarding statement for me to say, "I think X's mother is an alcoholic" and, actually, I am directly instructed not to. Instead, I am obliged to stick to the facts: "I believe that X's mother was drunk today when picking up because there was a strong smell of alcohol and she was slurring her words."

I agree with you that I am absolutely out of order making statements that have any sort of medical grounding.

That isn't quite the same as making a statement when the behaviour is relating to things I have witnessed in the classroom. If a parent has called me four times in the past month, insisting that the reason X hasn't made progress in reading is because he is dyslexic, when I know the child is able to read certain books perfectly well in class, but the book is going home and being lost at home, we are entering a different sphere: that of my professional expertise in saying that, in my opinion, the problem isn't SEN, it is the fact that reading doesn't seem to be happening at home.

I could still be wrong, but my opinion isn't out of place.

thehog I'm not disputing what you say about masking, but in reality a teacher wouldn't get support for a dc purely on that basis. Ditto for academically able dc that are still achieving and well behaved in school, even if the sn is masking their true ability and their behaviour is a mask for how they cope once safely at home

That’s not correct. My son is above average academically, always has been. ‘Masking’ requires huge effort and impacts on all other aspects, such as socialising, interaction, sensory,
mental health etc.

Your child can get an EHCP, they do not have to be behind academically.

‘Masking’ often serves to make it much more difficult to identify needs. For parents/teachers alike. It’s very complex and often requires expert assessment.

Peng yay! We are agreeing! I was actually behind your views to a certain point!

My son actually attends a specialist school, who specialise in Dyslexia! Amoung other things. My son isn’t dyslexia, he has an eye disorder which mimics the symptoms.

Anyhow, I digress! The thing that leapt out from your post was being able to read ‘certain’ books. My son when younger, used to memorise books (due to eye condition, mimicking dyslexia ie words jumping). His reading age was way above, his years. So no problem, right?!

The point is the words still jump around and the amount of effort it requires for him to read and the impact on his emotional well being, trying to ‘keep up’. EHCP now requires he uses a laptop, with enlarged text etc. Not because he cannot read text from a book, but because of the amount of effort required.

I’m not suggesting your student does have Dyslexia. Just it doesn’t hurt to give the benefit of the doubt and ensure it’s not the case. Rather than labelling parents (sorry I mentioned it again!)

It’s hard being a mum of a child with disabilities. I’m sure it’s hard being a teacher of 30+, I couldn’t do it! A bit of empathy for each other, goes a long, long way!

Claw001

Yes, of course, it is always possible that there are multiple factors, e.g. that a lack of progress in reading is caused in part by dyslexia, in part by a lack of reading at home. Certainly. But the reality is that a child with dyslexia might be able to make progress over time, while a child whose family aren't giving access to books at home almost certainly won't. In my opinion it is both premature and wasteful of resources to jump to an investigation of SEN, when the issue might well be solved and the matter closed, just by the parent being more careful with the books. Do you see what I mean? When I hear hooves, I think horses, not zebras. And yes, I think my SENCO does need to know that, in my opinion, a parent is seeking a diagnosis for an innate problem before trying to solve a fixable issue like that.

I totally see what you mean. It’s often a case of a combination of things and parents should most definitely be working with teachers and vice versa. Working in partnership is key.

It’s often difficult for children with dyslexia to progress just by reading more. Adjustments need to be made to enable progress.

Claw001

Of course. I'm not suggesting we can overcome dyslexia by doubling up on reading time. But a child with a 1:1 TA, adjustments in place, etc. still won't make progress unless they are reading at home. So, we need to make sure that is happening first, really. That's all I am saying.

Sorry that doesn’t quite tie in with your previous posts Peng! You were saying parent thinks child has dyslexia. You didn’t think so. Child just needed to read more at home!

A child doesn’t need to fail in mainstream first. My child was never in mainstream, she went in reception yr straight to a specialist base and later in transferred to a special school. We were able to get an ehcp very early on because of her severe asd and had to go through a sendist tribunal too. I know other people whose children went straight into special school.

Claw001

This is a hypothetical. I wouldn't necessarily be saying the child doesn't have it. I would be saying I don't currently believe they have it. I think the problem is that they are not reading. What else could I think?