Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

claw I think we're talking at cross purposes about masking. I agree entirely with what you say.

I'm referring to dc who mask so well in school the teacher hasn't seen any of the issues. In situations like that the teacher telling the senco/ slt that x's mum says outside school x exhibits numerous behaviours as a result of the masking isn't going to make support available, regardless of whether the teacher/ school would like to offer it.

Ditto ability, it does take an expert to pin point where the sn is masking ability and where the ability is masking the sn. And the more able the harder it is, sometimes to the point even an expert can't precisely identify the line in every area. And again the teacher with that dc, but who can only relate what the parent has told them regarding masking isn't going to have support made available just on that basis alone, regardless of whether the teacher would like to offer it.

peng I don’t see the difference tbh! Parent expresses concerns regarding child’s reading ability. You say child can read ‘certain’ books in school, obviously a bit of concern at only certain books. You say child not reading at home is the difficult! Refer on, establish need or not! Parent not blamed, can see concern is being taking seriously and will back you too! Partnership established!

thehog totally! My point being teacher reporting mum is the problem, we don’t see anything she is referring to is not helpful! Not the we don’t see anything mum is referring to bit, that should be reported! More the mum is the problem bit! Ie child has no difficulties (totally reasonable) mum is ‘over anxious’ (totally not reasonable, an assumption!)

Anyhow I sound like a broken record! It’s irresponsible to make assumptions of a parents state of mind, based on lack of understanding regarding SEN!

throws mic, walks away, puts the kettle on, gives others the chance to speak!

Claw001

I did not say I would not pass on the concern. I would pass on the concern like this:

X isn't making progress in reading. Parent believes X is struggling because of SEN (dyslexia). However, I have shared my concern with the parent that books are going home and are being lost, so it does not appear that books are being read at home, and this may explain the lack of progress. X is comfortable reading books at (insert level) in class. I have not observed anything that would suggest dyslexia.

I'm sorry, but a parent should not be coming to me with concerns about their child's inability to do something that they are not supporting them to do at home, when they ought to be. It doesn't make any sense and the SENCO needs the full picture in this (hypothetical) case.

Would you not pass on child is only able to read ‘certain’ books in school? That’s a big red flag for dyslexia!

As I stated earlier, my son could do this, memorised, not reading as such!

Can you see the subtle difference? One is mum has concerns, I think due to not reading at home.

The other would be, maybe there is problem!

Claw001

I think you have misinterpreted my use of the word "certain". I mean only that the child seems to be stuck at a certain level. This could be explained by a lack of regular reading at the appropriate level.

Claw001
I think what Peng is saying (though maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick) is that what she's say is soemthing like: home have concerns about reading progress. Progress is slower than we'd expect. Home believe this is due to dyslexia, but in class we have done X, y and z. The child has also read a number of books at level 3 4 5 etc independently & aloud and has demonstrated understanding. The chikd has a reading record and books go home but are never seen again. Based on this picture, reading at home would be the first port of call before anything else.

And that's entirely reasonable. (Plus, one of the things i would have in place for dyslexic students who are struggling is a set of books to read aloud at home. We have low level secondary age content books to facilitate this so having the child reading books being sent home would be my first way forward).

MaisyPops

That's exactly it. I wouldn't be supportive of exploring the possibility of a SN when the thing the child can't do is a thing they aren't trying to do.

I did misinterpret Peng! Sorry

I will also assume ‘certain level’ of books, is not in line with child’s peers? Hence concerns?

Maisy and that would be entirely reasonable! I have taken exception to the use of ‘parents are over anxious’ being shared amoung professionals! It shouldn’t be!

Claw001

Yes, I would be pointing out any lack of progress to the SENCO.

Claw001
For me, it's a phrase that is (usually) used to quickly and clumsily summarise that home are worried where they needn't be & sometimes that's reasonable.

E.g. I spoke to a senior colleague a few years ago about a situation where I felt home were over anxious about something (to do with child achievement) but actually there were zero concerns with the child's progress in school. It turns out there were issues at home that were shared withstaff on a need to know basis.

E.g. In another situation, home pushed and pushed for lots of assessments. We listened (despite having our own professional reservations) and went down the assessment route. The child ended up telling me in a 1-1 session that they felt home were trying to change their personality. Zero issues there other than an overbearing parent.

It is a phrase that shouldn't be used to dismiss or shut down professional dialogue, but sometimes it is a reasonable professional opinion to hold based on the evidence in front of you.

Maisy again, my apologies I am repeating myself.

I think the ‘over anxious parent’ should be put to bed now! If ALL expert assessments shows no difficulties, then that is exactly what it is, no identified difficulties! Not over anxious parent!

‘Over anxious parent’ label, serves no purpose what so ever! Investigate further, refer on to relevant professional, tell parent to seek advice elsewhere etc, etc

Identify need or not, as the case may be! However, do not say I’m not an expert in SEN, I will say no SEN is present (perfectly fine) and the parent is over anxious (not fine!) and I will share this info with other professionals! When you don’t know that is the case!

And breathe!! It pisses me off!

FutureMum

I agree, it is not impossible. It is not easy to achieve though. In my area there are 6 state specialist schools for the entire County. An EHCP needs to be in place to apply to one of them (and the LA panel have to agree there is a need). This means for most mainstream school is the only option even with a diagnosis and EHCP and even if it isn't remotely suitable. (My DS can't cope at all with busy, noisy environments due to sensory processing issues. He could attend the most inclusive school in the world, but by its very nature a mainstream classroom can't meet his needs).

SEN isn't always evident before a child starts school anyway and then it is even harder to get a specialist placement. Once you are past Y2 in my area the wait for a state special school place is 2 to 3 years. It is the thing that frustrates me the most the total lack of appropriate provision.

magic I just wanted to say if EHCP names a specialist school in EHCP, there is no waiting list. Your child has to be given a place, in case you were not aware.

Only exception is if specialist school is not on approved list, under section 41. Not impossible to get a place, however they do not HAVE to give place.

www.ipsea.org.uk/choosing-a-schoolcollege-with-an-ehc-plan

magicroundabouts

We (our school) have found that it seems to get progressively herder and harder to get EHCPs as the pupils progress through the education system.

There is also an issue with exams in that there has to be proof of the adjustments made in school before exam boards will allow extra time etc. (they will but it is even more of a pain)

BoneyBackJefferson
Same.
By the time a child gets to secondary it seems getting assessed for an EHCP is almost impossible (even with everyone on the same page and working together).

In my experience getting students with more obvious needs assessed by an EdPsych for an EHCP is vastly, vastly more difficult than getting extra time in exams if you're a student in a middle class area school. We always get an influx of requests after the y11 mocks because 'they really struggle to get everything down in time' / 'they are a bit slow reading the sources and that doesn't seem fair'. It's easier in y11 for aome parents to try and push for extra time than it is to tell their child that they just have to work on exam technique (like most other students). There is no way (in my opinion) that most of these are students with substantial difficulties as they have been just fine throughout school, have been fine with exams theough school and are fine in class, but middle class parents know the systems so you end up with a huge number of students who've had zero identified difficulties through school all suddenly having extra time. The same happens once one person gets wind that a friend's child gets to sit their exam out of the exam hall. Then loads of requests come in because they want their child to have a separate setting because their child has 'anxiety'. Most students will be nervous about exams. Some students genuinely have awful anxiety and struggle, some push the system.
It frustrates me because I've watched children who really really need the support miss out.

Maisy how do middle class parents manage to do that? Isn’t a professional report needed?

"Over anxious mum" and parental mental health is used to discredit so many genuine problems children are having and it's scandalous. Not just in schools - but by GPs and the like as well.

I had post-natal anxiety and depression (two kids close in age - one left me with anxiety and the other with depression - so I had a stonking overlap period where I was a bloody wreck basically). Because I was being treated for that... the GP completely ignored me telling them again and again that my child was coming up in a rash and vomiting Exorcist style after every feed. I got a "your child doesn't have any allergy issues... how's that anxiety medication coming along" headpat session until I started videoing reactions she was having and the health visitor got involved and went ballistic. No one was going to take ME seriously over it all.

Then it goes on into schools. If your child's having difficulties - you're GOING to be getting bloody anxious about it! And yes, there's this idea that middle class parents somehow buy their kids a way to extra time in exams and play the system - but in reality - they're parents who probably do see their children having issues, yes, perhaps not as severe issues as other children but in the absence of 29 other kids to handily compare their child to they don't have perspective to judge otherwise.

I'm terrified of what school are going to think of me paying out privately for speech therapy for DD2 when I go back because of attitudes like this. She was taken on by NHS services but we have been allocated the most utterly terrible therapist who really seems to hate her job and has a really crap attitude and just sits there ranting how these kids don't need any help and "what'dya want me to do with her then"... so yeah, we've bust the bank balance to get a course of private sessions and try to improve things ourselves. I'm hoping (and I believe) school will be supportive and happy to consolidate things in school since we've had fuck all from the NHS sessions - but this anti-parents throwing money at problems mentality hangs around. (And no we bloody well shouldn't be having to - but this is a kid with real speech articulation and intelligibility problems and an NHS system that basically now is set up to piss you off so much you give in and go away)

claw At dd's independent they screen for the likes of dyslexia etc early on in y7. Bearing in mind it's very academically selective these are dc who are already achieving highly so in many cases dc who haven't even hit the radar. Afaik it's not that they have disproportionate numbers with extra time, more about adjustments in class.

And I can't remember the name but there was a study that indicated dc in independents (and possibly it also said grammars/ very middle class high achieving schools too iirc) have a disproportionate amount of allowances made by exam boards.

It's my opinion that it isn't so much that these parents/ schools are working the system or exaggerating difficulties. More that in a mixed or even deprived environment those dc don't really get picked up on as masking sn with ability.

And that's not a criticism of schools or teachers, just the reality of the pressures they are under.

And as with all things, parents who are equipped to fight the system are more likely to get results.

I think I see where maisie is coming from. I know dc where the mothers own educational level (often down to deprivation and an undiagnosed sn) and social status is deemed ample evidence for why the child is struggling academically and behaviourally. So at secondary the screamingly obvious severe dyslexia and adhd are only starting down the assessment route, or perhaps even at y10 after dc has been managed out of their first school. Meanwhile dc similar to those at dds school have everything in place from the start.

Shocked to find my post calling out @clairetree1 for their disabilism has been deleted - Well done @MNHQ 👏
I absolutely despair at this person being a teacher in real life.

maria had you quoted her? If so that might be why, rather than your response.

Good points thehog

My son gets some adjustments for exams, it’s written in expert reports and EHCP.

I was just wondering how parents could manage to get adjustments if they were not needed. I’m assuming parents cannot just say it’s needed and it’s given.

Thanks, Claw001. I didn't know that was the case. That is really helpful to know.

DS's EHCP has just been finalised, but because he has another year of preschool they are named on the plan at present and it will be updated in January. LA have agreed the specialist place in principal as I requested specialist placement on the forms (school just need to review papers and agree), so I hope there won't be any issues. Of course I don't entirely trust them, as originally I was told you don't need to consider school transition until Oct/Nov. A quick chat with the school and it turns out all places are allocated by the end of September as demand is so high!

It is an absolute mindfield and I am fully aware that we have been lucky. DS has his diagnosis and EHCP in place at 4. It is truly scary that, as boney and others have pointed out, this is when it is easiest. It has taken us 2.5 years from when concerns were first raised to get to this point!

If your child's having difficulties - you're GOING to be getting bloody anxious about it!

5000KallaxHoles I completely agree and I think it is why HateIsNotGood's advice to look outside of school for advice and support is spot on. It is better for everyone.