AIBU to wonder why Corbyn hasn't got the boot yet?

[marsbarsandtwix]

After all this recent stuff. Please could we have someone else and make labour electable again. Why is he still there and do we think he still will be for the forseeable?

Unfortunately, especially as I like them both, they are 'tainted' and I doubt would get it.

Dan Jarvis has been very quiet recently and would be good as would Lisa Nandy.

I have no problem with Corbyn in general, but would rather someone who more people would vote for! I do like a lot of his policies, but think he’s a bit of a marmite character and as a result he’d never get voted in. I’d like Chukka Ummuna or Emily Thornberry to stand.

Corbyn has long been a terrorist sympathizer

What would he be arrested for being a sympathetizer many people are what would be have been charged with for attending commemorations of IRA terrorists

If he was aware and involved in terrorist activities then he might have been arrested

It’s not poor judgement it’s his his beliefs that are often very anti UK government

Not many colleagues are coming out to support him

my point is that he is not a terrorist sympathiser He did not technically break the law is why he wasn't arrested and charged. But does that make his actions any less reprehensible? How on Earth can you make such a claim in the face of the overwhelming evidence that exists on this matter?

Does the fact Corbyn wasn't charged with anything himself for example, mean he didn't want the PIRA to win? I remind you the people he wanted to succeed, The PIRA , bombed, shot, and beat to death 1,696 men, women & children, Irish, British, [protestant & catholic], as well as Australian, Spanish and German nationals?

They frequently let off bombs in civilian areas, did drive by shootings, executed and tortured "traitors" with drills and by nailing them to wooden floors.

Did you read what Sean Callaghan said? IRA men and women, many young and hopelessly politically naive, derived great encouragement from the solidarity openly displayed by Corbyn, McDonnell and their associates. I know. I was there. I witnessed the effect. They might not have pulled a trigger or planted a bomb but they certainly made it easier for those who did. By boosting our morale, they prolonged the violence and without a doubt, have blood on their own hands

He goes on to say: Corbyn ‘played no part ever, at any time, in promoting peace in Northern Ireland’ and any suggestion otherwise is ‘a cowardly, self-serving lie

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/jeremy-corbyn-has-blood-on-his-hands-from-ira-support-former-terrorist-says-35741452.html

How about the SDLP’s Seamus Mallon, former deputy first minister of Northern Ireland and one of the real architects of the NI peace process, who said: Corbyn very clearly took the side of the IRA and that was incompatible, in my opinion, with working for peace.’

Are you suggesting Mallon is wrong also. Just because Corbyn wasn't charged with anything personally?

I'll list his offences and you can deny that this adds up to him being a sympathiser if you like?

1. He attended PIRA terrorists funerals,
2. He lobbied the UK gov' on behalf of their prisoners who were locked up for terrorist offences just like those I described above.
3. He allowed the PIRA to published a article in his socialist rag that celebrated and gloated over the 5 people they murdered and the 31 others they maimed, in Brighton bombing in 1984.
4. He then invited the man who OK'd the bombing, Gerry Adams, to the Commons weeks after the Brighton bombing.
5. He openly supported their 'cause' in An Problacht. And gave speeches on the subject.
6. He appeared at their Ard Fheis rallies.
7. He shared a stage with PIRA terrorist Angelo Fusco, who was on the run wanted for murder.
8. He voted several times against the Anglo Irish Agreement because as he admitted 'the PIRA should not have to compromise'.
9. He attended and made speeches at annual pro-PIRA commemorations for terrorists between 1986 and '92. The programme for one such eventreads: In this, the conclusive phase in the war to rid Ireland of the scourge of British imperialism…force of arms is the only method capable of bringing this about.

So here they are, openly declaring the use of violence and Corbyn is sitting their loving every minute of it.

All of the above is a mater of public record. All of the above for you- does NOT add up to him being a supporter? All because he wasn't arrested and charged with any crimes related? Obviously he didn't get his hands dirty and publicly call for more killings. But he, as well as John McDonnell were there and every bit in agreement with them. Yet you still claim he wasn't a sympathiser? Do you realise what a monstrous position to take that is? Even McDonnell has apologised for his part in it. Perhaps, as you seem to believe Corbyn wasn't a sympathiser - you believe he was wrong to do so?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/18/john-mcdonnell-apologises-for-ira-comment-labour

And if you asked him to condemn the actions of the PIRA, he would come out with his generic response, 'I am against violence in all its forms' or some such.

Just as he did when he was asked to condemn anti-semitism. It took months before he would specifically condemn AS without broadening it out as a general condemnation of racism. And a whole year before he said, 'Not in my name' about the thousands of vile tweets directed at Jewish Labour MPs, particularly women, and in on-line groups called some variant of JC4PM.

Good to see Simon Hatttenstone's piece in the Guardian on-line. Who is this 'Labour spokesman' who keeps coming out with formulaic platitudes to defend Corbyn? They don't speak for me.

All of the above for you- does NOT add up to him being a supporter?

The problem with your list is its inaccuracies and half truths eg you state he voted against the Anglo Irish Agreement, forgetting to mention this failed agreement didnt stop any bombing and no one (in ulster) supported it!
JC voted for the GFA, stating “We look forward to peace, hope and reconciliation in Ireland in the future.”
The IRA had to give up their weapons, surely an act of compromise?

JC supports a united Ireland and supports Seinfinn, neither is yet illegal, that he may have been completely ineffectual in bringing about peace or a united Ireland etc is irrelevant, just proves my point that he shouldn't be Labour leader!

So, looking at your list and the definitions of support below, why hasn't JC been charged, or even questioned, clearly guilty as sin.....

Support.(of terrorism from UK gov website)
(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he invites support for a proscribed organisation, and
(b)the support is not, or is not restricted to, the provision of money or other property (within the meaning of section 15).
(2)A person commits an offence if he arranges, manages or assists in arranging or managing a meeting which he knows is—
(a)to support a proscribed organisation,
(b)to further the activities of a proscribed organisation, or
(c)to be addressed by a person who belongs or professes to belong to a proscribed organisation.
(3)A person commits an offence if he addresses a meeting and the purpose of his address is to encourage support for a proscribed organisation or to further its activities.
(4)Where a person is charged with an offence under subsection (2)(c) in respect of a private meeting it is a defence for him to prove that he had no reasonable cause to believe that the address mentioned in subsection (2)(c) would support a proscribed organisation or further its activities.

Exactly Thymeout This is one the main problems with Corbyn. He simply won't own up to his past. He continues to deny and lie about it. He'll never apologise never, about anything, not without one of his little moral equivalence clauses.

For example: When asked to condemn arch anti-Semite Ken Livingstone, after one his many comparisons of Jews with Nazi's. Corbyn replied "I've always been clear - I condemn all forms of racism..."

Note the lack of any specific criticism or condemnation of Livingstone for his grotesque remarks. Just rhetoric?

Last week, my daughter [19, left wing and exactly the type pf person who's Corbyn's pie-in-the-sky promises, has had traction], has confessed, to my inadequately concealed delight, to a growing disillusionment with Corbyn over this anti-semitism furore. Hopefully the first stage of the same processfor many others.

So all the actions I listed are half truths are they? All of the reports from the press are inaccurate, can you tell us why though?

www.newsletter.co.uk/news/night-jeremy-corbyn-stood-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757

All of the previous links I sent you are just speculation and have been made up just to slander his good name yes?

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/politics/614056/jeremy-corbyn-ira-arrested-support-brighton-bombing-patrick-magee-terrorist-links

All of the previous reports I've provided, are wrong too, but you are right?

ineffectual in bringing about peace He had absolutely nothing to do with the peace process. Unless you can tell us just exactly what his role was in the peace process, other than grovelling to Gerry Adams? I'm sorry, he had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the peace process. Unless you're suggesting that Seamus Mallon and Enda Kenny are both wrong? Are you? I have asked you this already and you've dodged the question - so kindly do so now..Tell us why are these people wrong?

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/gerry-adams-was-on-ira-army-council-says-irish-pm-28868867.html

I've provided you with copious example of his support for the PIRA and you have offered nothing but "Oh no he didn't"...

The answer to your list, is -- that he has been very careful not to incriminate himself, clearly. Where the republican meetings he attended recorded or were there transcripts of the speeches kept? If not, then how would the authorities be able to charge him? His support is there it is unequivocal and for all to see. The fact that you deny it - is reprehensible.

imo it's very very damaging to the party keeping him there given everything that's coming to light now. Wtf are they doing? This sort of damage will take years to get over and regain the trust of the public, and the longer it goes on the worse it is. It really feels like the party doesn't care. Also that they are purposefully doing nothing. They'd rather just sit back and criticise the Tories than provide a viable alternative. How can they expect to increase support? They're not providing an opposition. Very depressing for British politics. How much longer is he realistically hanging on for.

Comment from Wes Streeting MP on the latest controversy

"His non-apology would be a tad more convincing if it was accompanied the ‘militant fight against antisemitism’ we were promised.

Social media is full of people acting in his name perpetuating a torrent of abuse and antisemitic language. At some point, Jeremy Corbyn might conclude the problem is Jeremy Corbyn.”

Jeremy Corbyn has defended his statement – made in 2013 – that a group of Zionists had “no sense of irony” despite “having lived in this country for a very long time”, as he sought to quell the latest bitter row over alleged antisemitism in his party.

Thanks to PP for mentioning the Simon Hattenstone piece - highly recommend it

I gave Corbyn the benefit of the doubt on antisemitism. I can’t any more

This stupid dog whistle statement was in 2013. Not when he was a kid in the 70s. He's a git that lives sucking up to anyone outside the mainstream so that he looks cool to the kids. And people like the IRA and Hamas have sucked it up to claim mainstream support.
Twat needs to go. We need someone with an ounce of intelligence and integrity to take on the Tories.
Yvette Cooper would, even when at her lamest, rung rings around the Tories.

If he was such an 'honest' politician, maybe he should still be saying what he was saying in the preceding 30 years when he was a backbench mp with no power even within his own party, never mind having any influence over peace processes in Ireland and the Middle East. But that would be so unpalatable he would not have been able to cling to power for 5 minutes, never mind 3 years. He's backtracking on years of terrorist sympathising and hard left rhetoric because he is so desperate for the adulation and the power that comes with being Jeremy Corbyn, Leader of the Opposition. He and his Momentum cronies don't seem to care about winning elections. Do they think they will be swept to power on the back of some kind of populist revolution without the need for the MSM or people voting for them?

Ratchet, no its not, i just happen to believe in justice and the rule of law, innocent until proven guilty.....you believe in the rule of the mob, which is ironic as you are anti organisations that clearly don't support justice or the rule of law.

If Corbyn is a terrorist supporter as you claim, then i say that the evidence just isn't there for that, JC hardly comes across as some criminal master mind, evading the skills of the Met and the security services who must be particularly inapt that he still manages to avoid even the most cursory of investigations.

I just googled JC and terrorism, the story in the SUN on-line (August 2018) was JC must answer questions as to why he was at the same rally, in London, with the worlds first female plane bomber.... something she did in 1969! how the fcuk would he be expected to know she was there???? or what she'd done 50 years ago? the story went on to repeat the Wreath laying bollox, all printed with authority and most people would believe every twisted word! and if this woman is such a threat to our way of life, why wasn't she arrested?

JC is clearly a target for the right wing media, aided and abetted by people who believe every word of the headline.

All leaders of the labour party are targets for the media. If corbyn can't manage that without accidentally stumbling into controversy after controversy relating to anti semitism he may want to rethink his career path. Either he is linked to the anti Semitic element of the left or he is incredibly unlucky, neither are good for an effective opposition.

Does sexism or racism have to be explicitly expressed to not be shown in other ways

I am well aware when a man is being sexist towards me without direct actions or language

Livingston said something very interesting about Corbyn - that they agree on all policies and have the same views and always have done over the number of years they have known each other

well some would still claim Livingston isn't anti Semitic most thankfully can see straight through him but has he done anything to warrant him being arrested and charged no

Corbyn is a terrorist sympathizer that is why he should never ever be PM and thankfully won't be - this is a choice he has made throughout his career just that he held no influence and was insignificant in politics up until three years ago he was hardly worth bothering about he was just a thorn in the side of the Labour Party

or be shown in other ways ...

Does sexism or racism have to be explicitly expressed to not be shown in other ways

Only when it's certain groups, it seems. As I've said elsewhere, with any other minority the tacit support for/lack of action against those who wish to persecute them would be instantly damned as the most appalling racism

But not, it appears, when those affected are jewish

Labour’s new code of conduct states that the use of the word Zionism “euphemistically or as part of any personal abuse” may “provide evidence of antisemitic intent”.

On both fronts, if Corbyn said the same thing today he would be in breach of his own party’s guidance.

*Only when it's certain groups, it seems. As I've said elsewhere, with any other minority the tacit support for/lack of action against those who wish to persecute them would be instantly damned as the most appalling racism

But not, it appears, when those affected are jewish *

Sadly that does seem to be the case puzzled
I'm not jewish but am genuinely appalled by the lack of an unequivocal condemnation of all anti semitism after the criticism levelled (rightly so) at the Labour Party. That alone is enough for me. WW2 is within living memory and you would think those lessons are ingrained big time on everyone. I have truly been shocked by the whole thing and disgusted by the weak useless response from JC.

The PLP, at its last meeting of the session, voted to accept the IHRC definition, with only one dissenting vote - John Prescott. Corbyn then said there would be consultation during recess and another vote in September. Since then very few non-Jewish MPs have spoken out about recent scandals. Is this for strategic reasons? If so, what is the strategy? I'm sure Corbyn has very few supporters on his response to fresh allegations. Apart from McDonnell, none of his usual shad cab allies has spoken up in support. They seem to be leaving it to the membership and anonymous spokesmen. Are the PLP just holding their fire, or is it to avoid fanning the flames and then being accused of sabotaging the planned campaign to present new policies to the public?

Whenever the subject comes up on BBC/Sky press previews, it's remarkable how both left and right reviewers agree that Corbyn has a case to answer.

Sorry. IHRA. I have a blind spot for acronyms. [embarrassed]

Corbyn is a terrorist sympathizer that is why he should never ever be PM and thankfully won't be

I wouldn't bet on that, Labour are there or there about with the Tories and if Brexit goes horribly wrong, he could well be the next PM.

Personally, i don't want that, concentrating all your fury on whether he is an anti Semitic or a Terrorist, is missing the point spectacularly and will allow him to cling to power as his supporters close ranks.

Instead focus on his total lack of leadership qualities and his political ineptitude.

Since (the last PLP meeting) very few non-Jewish MPs have spoken out about recent scandals

Maybe they're worried about being deselected?

Instead focus on his total lack of leadership qualities and his political ineptitude.

Problem is that his supporters still close ranks and call you a red tory, the only way I can see him going is either by a crushing GE defeat or a coup, even then it could be worse as we could end up with Mcdonnell!

Corbyn followers are the left wing equivalent of Trump’s deplorables. Fucking deluded, won’t hear a bad word against dear Leader, attacking anyone who reasonably dare criticise their hero, despite the bleeding obvious in front of them. And a reasonable amount crawling out of the woodwork and proving to be anti-Semitic to boot.

Corbyn’s been a joke since the start. A sanctimonious ideologue throughout his career, sat on the back-benches chucking grenades at his own party, as others have rightly said in this thread, acting like an angry teenager hanging around with the edgy kids (Hamas, Sinn Fein) for 30 years. He has no leadership skills at all.

He was a protest vote that went horribly wrong. Look at his shambles of a shadow cabinet, all the talent in the LP rightly have nothing to do with him. He’s got the dregs, benchwarmers and leftovers in the shadow cabinet (bar Starmer & at a stretch, Watson), the rest are an embarrassment, just like dear Leader. The Tories are a disgrace and should be getting smashed out of sight with their incompetence and in fighting over Brexit (in addition to their general disdain for people), Labour should be miles ahead, but there’s no chance with that Marxist clown in charge, along with his echo chamber of left wing sanctimony (Milne, Jones, Mason, McCluskey et al) rallying the troops.

I voted for Kinnock, Blair, Brown and Milliband & always thought I’d vote Labour, but I could not vote for that idiot in the last election, and will not vote for Labour again whilst JC and his Momentum deplorables are poisoning the party.

I am angry, the party that I followed for most of my life has been taken over by Marxist arseholes, the people who see aspiration as a sin, living in some socialist utopia that doesn’t and will never exist (Venezuela’s going well, isn’t it), thinking the world owes them a living. I am politically homeless, and I am angry. The anti-Semitism is the icing on the cake of this shit show, and I am furious.

And breathe