To not understand MIL/DIL relationships

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This isn't an anti MIL thread (there are tons of them here)
I genuinely would like to try to understand why MILs & DILs have such notoriously troublesome relationships

I used to get on brilliantly with mine.
But since she retired and I had DD the dynamic of our relationship has changed.
We are both finding our feet in our new lives and seem to be not gelling.

Her ways now get under my skin when before I could of shrugged them off. I'm holding grudges for things I would of let go before
She thinks I've become too sensitive and lost my sense of humor. I also think she thought she'd be more hands on with DD and is disappointed I don't need help.

We do both make an effort to get along for DH and DD.
Don't get me wrong although she has her flaws (like any of us) she can be great too and I do miss how we used to be.

Do you think it comes from caveman times when there could only be 1 female in charge? 😂

Seriously though why does it need to be difficult?
Why is there so many threads and stories of MIL and DIL not getting along?

Actually my own MIL didn't get on with hers!! 😂

My MIL seemed really disappointed when me and DH coped really well with a newborn, I have had to remind her that I am not young a few times, she had her DC very young but I was pushing 40 and very much a grown up

I think the dynamic is very fluid as you and your husband adapt to different things in their life. Children, moving house, changes of jobs, holidays, even little things like Sunday lunch can all make a massive difference to dil and mil perception of each other.
Naturally we are used to our own mothers and their silly little ways, we can just roll our eyes and ignore, but mil hasn’t been in your life forever, she’s almost a newcomer and as such she hasn’t earnt the “respect” you grant your own mother.
She will also be the one who has taught your husband how to grow up, he has been her baby and if she’s anything like my mil, she is incredibly passive aggressive because she has been his best girl for years and suddenly now she has to take a back seat.
It’s a shock to the system to find out that what she thought was the quid pro quo, is actually no longer because of “another woman”

Mil/DiL relationships work just fine as long as one of you isnt a cunt. Dil's are just as likely to be the problem as MiLs , not that you'd think that from mumsnet.

I really liked my MIL when we first met and looked forward to having a good relationship with her. However out of her four children and one stepchild, my husband is the only one who doesn't hate her. He loves her because he is dutiful and knows you should love her mother but has reluctantly concluded that he doesn't like her. Her other children and sons/daughters in law want nothing to do with her and keep her other grandchildren away from her.

This might sound sad and selfish but I learned over time that this happens for a reason. She is the most self-absorbed person I have ever met and her only interest in other people is control. She is an absolutely awful person. Along with her children, her own parents, her brother and his family and all her in laws also dislike her intensely. They largely distrust my husband and me because we make an effort with her. Similar happens in her friendships - the woman is in her fifties but regularly goes doolally over an exciting new friendship but these always end badly. As far as I can tell she has no good relationships in her life except her husband - who is just as awful as she is. They're a perfect couple.

I never wanted it this way but I'm certainly not going to blame myself. And as for those who say a MIL can't be that bad because she raised the man you love, no. His father gets the credit for that.

First MIL was so cold she would have melted the Antarctic.

Wouldn't it take someone incredibly hot to achieve that?

I think it's biological. As a Mother, your instinct is to protect your baby but you're expected to entrust it to some random woman....who isn't your own blood relative

I read this as tongue in cheek and from the perspective of the MIL!

I reckon as a MIL you have to not let the irrational part of you win - the part that is jealous because your beautiful baby loves someone else now. As a DIL a bit of empathy goes a long way. How much you love your kids - that's how much she loves your H.

I was very lucky with my MIL. Never overstepped the mark once. Wish she was still around.

I do understand about not wanting your MIL near your baby when a newborn as she is not your blood relative. It is definitely biological and you can’t help feeling this way. You KNOW she is your new baby’s blood relative, but to me at least it made no difference to how I felt. Of course I let her near the baby etc., it certainly pained me to do so. I felt so protective and letting this random, yes, random (to me) woman have hold of my baby sent my instincts screaming. I didn’t show it and MIL has a great relationship with my daughter.

It definitely changes things when you have a baby and this woman whom you know only through your partner thinks that they have a say over your child.

I get on ok with my MIL. It has taken nearly ten years to get to this point, and over a year of therapy on my part.

She is not an easy woman to get on with, but I am not blameless at all in the deterioration of the relationship.

My husband told me such terrible stories of his childhood when we first got together - the pressure, the love that was conditional (he only felt worthy if he was doing well at school etc), the beatings, the favouritism towards his sister etc etc - that I had formed a poor opinion of them before I'd really met them properly. Their behaviour in the first couple of years of our relationship backed this up - neediness, no understanding of space, demanding etc. If ever he wasn't free to go round when she wanted him to, she wanted a blow by blow account of what we were doing, where we were going etc. It was invasive, and totally unlike my family and I couldn't cope.

We muddled along for a few years, then had DS1 - the first few months were horrendous. Demanding to see him, making out like she couldn't get through a week without seeing him (I thought once a week was reasonable, apparently I was wrong), then insisting that she have him when I went back to work. We agreed to this as I thought if she had him in the week she might not mind so much if we didn't go round every weekend - fat chance. Anyway, I had decided to take a year off for maternity, but she hassled me from the moment he was 6 months and I ended up going back to work earlier than I wanted to, just to get her off my back.

Anyway, 5 years later and a lot of work on my part, not least recognising that she wouldn't change so I had to, (thanks MN!) we have a relationship where I don't want to rip my own eyeballs out in anger every time I see her. We can chat and laugh. It's very superficial (on my part at least), I don't consider her a friend, she is not someone I would ever go to for help for myself, not someone I could ever confide in or anything like that. But we can have a cuppa and a natter about the kids. If nothing else, we both love my boys, so we make it work. I don't go round at the weekends anymore, my husband takes the kids and I get the time to myself. I consider the relationship low contact - although I see her anything from once a week to three times a week depending on school holidays, it is for a couple of minutes when I drop the kids off.

I don't hate her. I don't love her. I cope with her and it works. I feel better about the whole thing and my husband is no longer stuck in the middle. I was on the verge of despising him for his lack of a spine - he once told me that while he agreed with everything I said about her, he would still rather upset me than her because I would forgive him later. I told him in no uncertain terms that that was not the case and that if that was how he saw it then I was off! But I did see that he was torn and he is still a frightened child desperately seeking his mother's approval, which he has never had. No matter how hard he worked at school or in life, he has never been good enough and probably never will be to her.

My SIL is another matter though. The golden child, could do no wrong etc etc, allowed to bully and hurt my husband when they were growing up with no comeback. She is now unable to hold a proper conversation - she literally just makes grunting noises when you speak to her unless you really manage to get her on her own for a length of time. She is massively intelligent but can't do her own washing. It is scary to see. I have tried to help in the limited way I can but I don't think there is anything I can do. She gets on very well with the boys because they don't expect an adult relationship - I think it says a lot that she gets on better with a 5 and 2 year old than anyone her own age. It's sad really but I refuse to let it be my problem.

Sorry for the ramble. As you were.

I have no doubt that my MIL would be one of the ones to say she has been hard done to by me, I'm an evil, uncaring, ungrateful snob etc etc

The truth is for over a decade, pre kids, I put up with her and her sister's quite frankly horrible, snide and passive aggressive comments to keep the peace.

Once I had DS1 she was, "disappointed he wasn't a girl," and yet wanted DS to spend every weekend with her, it took a lot of negotiating to get that down to every other weekend. I'd drop him off, leave and burst into tears and I'd still have other family members ringing demanding to know why were were being so mean and stopping MIL from seeing her DGS.

Fast forward several years and we relocated to a different part of the country. (By this point the every other weekend visits were a thing of the past because she had a DGD, BILs child). My ILs helped us move. The morning after, my upset DS, now 4, asked MIL when he'd be able to stay over. Her response: "You won't be able to do that again, because mummy has moved you so far away from us." She didn't realise that I'd heard, and FIL, bless his heart, stepped in, consoled my sobbing DS and reassured him that he WOULD be able to see them and stay and he would make sure of it. I walked away before I said anything really nasty. But it was the final nail in the coffin for me. Fine, treat me to your horrible, manipulative rubbish, but don't do it to my already upset 4 year old.

I could add about just how nasty MIL is to FIL in front of the kids, one particularly memorable time being MIL ranting at FIL about how useless and lazy he was whilst he was having a heartattack in the front room. The atmosphere at their house is horrid :-(

MIL and I are NC now, and my mental health is much better for it. She, of course, has never done anything wrong.

@noeyedeer our story's r so similar!! Apart from we haven't moved away but are NC now. Could have written your post word for word including the disappointment of not having a girl yet wanting DS all the time and putting up with comments off her and sister, like you my mental health is much better and yes my MIL has done no wrong either.

I think it's about locus of control. I'm old enough that my generation's mums mostly didn't work. The home and family was their domain and the only place they felt powerful. They didn't have their own money and generally lacked influence over anything more exciting than the kids' routine and what was going to be for dinner. Women in that position are understandably not going to take kindly to the arrival of a woman who threatens to usurp what meagre power they have. The opportunities for women to have interesting and influential lives have increased enormously over my lifetime and I think that will be reflected in the MIL/DIL relationships of the future. Interesting to me that the OP's problems with her MIL began after MIL retired.

My mil made it clear there was no place for me in her family what's so ever.
She states dh has 2 families his original and his new one.
I have one large family that I was happy for them to be a part of.
As soon as dp said he was moving in to my fully furnished house (I was paying for) I was a gold digger etc. I was expected to let him live with me expense free so he could still contribute to his original family, As after all they where there first
We had to book in advanced to see them. Ie a weeks notice. Which is fine I don't expect them to sit at home waiting for us, but we though if we popped by and hey where in they could have a catch up. But this is disrespectful they need notice.
But tired up at ours at all hours of night.

What makes me really sad is dh and sil had a really close relationship. She is 34 but still lives with pil's so dh is unable to have a relationship with her separate to his parents as they are a pack.
If one of the three couldn't come to see dc they all couldn't come.
It because a logistical nightmare.
And we even had to delay dcs bedtime till 11pm so they could have their dinner as a family before they visited.

Mil push to far one day.
Now the relationship they have with the dc is very limited for dh and I's sanity and relationship as a whole. They bearly see dc 5 times a year.

The saddest thing is they live across the road from us..

I have a dc with my ex also.
His mother is a wonderful lady. We used to get on great. We have had issues during the relationship breakdown but she love my dd dearly. And shows her with emotional support

My mil passed away. Dh and all his brothers and sisters are still very raw about it. She was lovely and I liked her A LOT.

I think it can be how they where raised and expected to behave by their own mils too.

I’ve heard off many friends how their mils always want the baby and the baby lone want sleep overs early on, must be the childcare etc. It seems to stem from the fact that they where expected to give exactly that to their own mil so see it as their turn now. The same thing used to happen with marriage where the bride and groom really didn’t have much of a say so then when their children got married they expected the same but times had changed.

It also helps if you are actually nice when they are only a gf no good is going to come from being mean to the gf who then becomes the wife and mother.

Everyone has to remember a mil/dil isn’t actually someone you pick to be in your life. I wouldn’t be friends with my mil if I hadn’t met dh so there is no reason we would be like great buddies just because I married him. I married him because I love him not because of my feelings of his family.

My MIL and I are very different people.i genuinely think that when she tried to stop the wedding, pleaded with her son etc she felt she was doing right by him. Its hurtful and I've never forgiven her but I have moved on. Now she has accepted after 20 years I'm not going anywhere and I obviously suit her DS. We are still chalk and cheese personality wise but I know she loves my DH and my kids and would move heaven and earth for them, and she knows to ask me first!

I have had 2 MILS. 1st one was grand with only 1 head o collision. She was a strong woman used to ruling the roost BUT she was respectful of my home and my family life and if she had anything to say it was upfront. Good and bad.
She admired my work ethic and housekeeping. I think she would have liked to work outside the home too but different times and culture etc.
The other one...God help us. A total wagon. Devious. Meanspirited. Paranoid. Greedy. Snob and narrow minded.
Luck of the draw

My first MiL was a stepmother who treated my ex pretty appallingly when he was young and had just lost his mum. She was an absolute horror, took great delight in making snide comments and is detested in his extended family. I saw jaws drop at some of the things she said to me. Thankfully she stopped speaking to me when we (amicably) separated.

My second MiL is dead. She must have been lovely because my husband's ex wanted her to live with them when she was widowed.

@emma2939

I think you've got it spot on chilli! I never expected to be best buddies with MIL, friendly terms maybe, but if not polite and cordial. Unfortunately, MIL didn't get that message and thought she could be a snide, gossipy, passive aggressive so and so and I should just smile sweetly and love her for it.

I also don't think she's ever got over the fact that I won't call her or FIL mum and dad. It's always seemed very strange to me, but then she'd also like me to behave like one of her kids and pander to her every whim and change in mood, which I won't do.

I don't get on very well with my MIL, have been with DP for over 9 years, we have one little boy! From the start she would make comments about me to DP, about how immature, self centred and spoiled she thought I was - not sure what gave her cause to think this, as I always tried to get along with her, DP is a few years older than me and she made very clear to him she thought the relationship would never last (proved her wrong, still happy nearly a decade later) DP is only son, she has a DD too, who can never do any wrong! But she always seems to want some semblance of control in our lives, she demanded when we planned a house move to look at pictures of houses we were considering, wanted to know my arrangements for going back to work after mat leave when I was barely 4 months pregnant, expressed her disappointment when I was unable to successfully breastfeed and when I was diagnosed with PND made it very clear I couldn't expect any support from her - things like this have unfortunately tainted my relationship with her. I think her expectations of me when I started a relationship with DP was that I should be some sort of 'stepford wife' and follow DP around making sure his every need and whim was catered for, I have always believed things around the home should be done as equally as possible, whereas she comes from a generation where she still thinks of things as 'women's jobs'. I try my best to be as pleasant to her as possible, but it's not easy when you think someone is constantly judging you or trying to find the tiniest thing to criticise about - that's why I struggle with my MIL!

I had a good enough relationship with MIL but she was much closer to SIL as she has known her so much longer and that suited me fine. We’d go for Sunday lunch once or twice a month, have a chat and that was that. She’s not really the sort of person I’d choose to spend time with but I made the effort and it was fine.

But within the space of a month PIL died, my DD was born and MIL moved onto my road. My DD has become the centre of her world and I struggle to cope with her constant presence and communications about the baby, as well as her nagging to have the baby alone and calling DD “my baby”. It’s been difficult going from minimal contact to feeling smothered by her. It’s not really her fault as her husband has just died but I feel like she has no concept of boundaries and I’m starting to really dislike her. Maybe it will improve in the future but I don’t know. It’s unlikely SIL will have kids so my DD will probably be her main focus.

I superficially get on fine with my MIL. She's certainly not a horrible person, but we are very different in our outlook on life. She has some views I strongly disagree with and it is clear that she disapproves of certain family decisions we've made and certain things about how we parent our dc. And I strongly suspect she blames me for all of it, as dh can do no wrong in her eyes. She never says any of this openly but it's obvious. We are perfectly lovely and friendly to each other outwardly though!

Never had any trouble with MILs. Possibly because although totally different in lifestyle and experience they were both intelligent and emotionally intelligent. While I've read Sons and Lovers - the ultimate noxious mother/son relationship unless someone can correct me - I've never met any woman who believes her baby boy is hers alone and not to be shared with another female, or is so crass as to dictate to her DS/DDIL. I also don't get the dad/daughter thing which equally I've never experienced in the old stag/new stag way. Utter sympathy for anyone who has these dreadful ILs. As for the old music hall routine of men complaining about their MILs - I suspect back in the day it was the MiLs defending their daughters from the bad treatment they might have experienced themselves.

My MIL is wonderful. Partly, she says, because her MIL was hideous so she was determined not to be. I see her most days as FIL recently went into a care home because of his dementia so she's a little lost. It's great though as my youngest has additional needs so she's a wonderful help. Today she's taken my 4yo and my 9yo out for the day. I have no idea where they are going because they don't either - they've gone to play "the next train" which is when they go to the local station and see which train (3 big towns/cities are the options) is coming first and having a "make it up as we go" day. Twice today my best mate has commented that she'd be a nervous wreck not knowing there they are, but they're safe, warm, happy and well looked after.

I'm also lucky in that I have my 'other MIL'. My DH was widowed when I met him, DS1 was very young. His MIL could have been, justifiably, difficult when I came into their lives. However, she's wonderful. She's always been supportive. We've had a few disagreements over things, but she's the type that said "Look, I'm just saying this - I don't agree with x,y or z, but obviously it's up to you" and that was it. Sometimes we agreed with her and sometimes we didn't.

She's also a much, much stronger woman than I could ever be because when DS was 10 he decided he wanted to call me Mum, but he was very worried what his Mummy would have thought. It was her who spoke to him and told him that she loved him to the end of the earth and if he wanted to call me Mum then she'd be ok with that because she'd be happy someone else was looking after him when she couldn't. To hear him call me that when he is her daughter's baby cannot be easy and yet she's wonderful about it. I have two children and DH and I have gone on to have three together and she is Granny P to them. Her strength amazes me.

My mother would have been the MIL from hell, but DH never met her

I feel very sorry for your DH too @TheMonkeyMummy.