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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice needed please - child arrangement order

293 replies

Standinguptononsense · 13/08/2018 15:45

Not really an Aibu as such but posted for traffic.

My ex husband and I have been separated for over 3 years. We have a court order in place for the children as of Oct 2016.

He is not taking me back to court because I won't agree to a spreadsheet dictating when each of us takes the children to the dentist, Dr's, hairdressers, get there feet measured and when they speak to the other parent when they are not with them! Despite me saying we can have a conversation about it, because I won't go to mediation (because a, there's no point and b I can't afford it). I've very recently remarried so I. Wonder if this has sparked his narcissist traits off again and he's trying to control every last thing.

Does anyone have an experience of this?

Thanks in advance

Xxx

OP posts:
Standinguptononsense · 30/09/2018 19:42

I've written my statement all 4 pages of it. I have evidence to back up my points which I have attached as apendices. How many copies do I need to provide? I can't use my sister in law as it woukd cause her too much trouble.

OP posts:
Mumteedum · 30/09/2018 21:05

I'd just do one for his side and one for the judge and take them with you on the day or send one copy to judge with the forms

Queenofthedrivensnow · 30/09/2018 21:09

So this is a money saving exercise. Ffs. Hug mate x

Standinguptononsense · 30/09/2018 21:13

I've already sent the forms off. I'll just hand them on the day that way he isn't prepared with what I have put either. I'm happy with mine just hope they read it!

Yeah about saving money. He doesn't see what he should give me money and pay for things at his apparently.

OP posts:
Mumteedum · 02/10/2018 07:05

Just looked again. You should cut that down. A judge won't read a long document especially on the day. I did one side of bullet points and believe me I could write a novel on that man. It is you setting out your stall. What you want or will accept and why i. E. Backing up with evidence.

Standinguptononsense · 06/10/2018 18:53

I can't reduce it any more as it covers all the points. Plus my evidence is lengthy too. I just want it done :(

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 14:36

Make the initial point in your document that he should not be using the court to micromanage contact.
The courts hate thinking parents need micromanaging in this sort of detail.

Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 17:14

Yeah I've said he is coercively controlling what he wants through the courts

OP posts:
Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 17:31

Can't believe it's tomorrow. Really hope they see through him.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 07/10/2018 17:37

I wish you well Thanks I really hope the judge thinks "FFS this man is a complete pr*ck"

Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 17:38

😂 And me! I haven't put that in my statement!

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 18:13

But use that word. Micromanaging.
They hate it.
I'm a family solicitor.
Be very careful not to appear hostile and bandying about allegations. I appreciate they are true but think about what you need to, and can, prove.
The risk is it backfires on you, making you look like the hostile and controlling one (insisting on bring in charge of every aspect of the children's lives).
I stress that I'm not disbelieving you, just giving you a health warning as to how your case can be twisted.

Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 18:33

Thank you. I am hoping I get an opportunity to speak. I'll say that. My statement is factual and then backed up with evidence. He manipulates things as well which doesn't help

OP posts:
Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 18:35

How should I open my statement? I'm worried about what I have prepared now.

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 18:46

The actual procedure doesn't provide for full statements at this stage. But since you've prepared one (and he has) the magistrates may read it/them, particularly if they are short.

I'd just start it saying that you are a Litigant in Person and have prepared a summary of your position in writing to assist the court.

Set out brief background. Date of marriage, separation and divorce, children's DOBs and names. Arrangements since separation and how they have evolved and date/details of current COA.

Where each parent now lives and what their working hours/jobs are.

Explanation of how it has worked in practice. Ie he has children 6/14, this has worked well and you have always taken care of things like routine health, dental etc with no issue. How any medical emergencies have been dealt with (or how you would deal if it happened).

How communication has worked.

How he has not attended many school events although you have ensured he is aware of the dates. If true, say that it is often unusual for dad's to be at these sorts of events anyway.

What the current issue is and how it suddenly arose.

What you agree to and what you don't. Why the proposals you don't agree will not work. Ie you cannot rigidly take turns doing routine dental stuff by dividing the year. Life is not regimented like that.

Your concern that the timing of this has been caused by your remarriage and you think that he is wanting the court to micromanage the children's lives and this is not the role of the court. The two of you need to co-parent and you think that the current arrangement works well and you are baffled why things have taken the turn they have.

shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 18:48

Your first hearing should start with the two of you being taken to one side by the CAFCASS Officer who will explore the issues with you. (S)he will then be the first to report to the court when the actual hearing starts about whether there is scope to reach agreement without intervention.

shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 18:50

Say in your statement that an adversarial court process over such minor issues is inappropriate.
Explain why you felt ill equipped to do face to face mediation but were prepared to do shuttle mediation, and why.

Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 19:06

Would you mind reading what I have prepared? It's along the lines of what you have said. But doesn't include everything?

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 19:14

Sure, pm me

Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 19:18

Sent. It's lost the paragraphs etc so apologies.

I'm. Happy to. Prepare something shorter if you think that's best for tomorrow. This is a specific steps order not a change to the current Cao.

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 19:45

I've messaged you. What you've written is even handed and reasonable.

shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 19:50

I think he has procedure wrong. Specific issues/steps are things like schooling. Hat he's wanting really is to alter the CAO.
I think the court should give him sort shrift. This is not a matter they should be interfering in. Courts can't intervene in every dispute.

I've just had a thought.
Add to your note that there is a "no order principle", which is that where an order is unnecessary the court should not make one. This is a perfect example of where an order is not necessary.
The courts primary concern is the welfare of the children and you consider it goes against their welfare for the father to invite the court to micromanage the minutiae day of their lives.

Put that at the beginning so it's the first thing the magistrates read.
There are 3 mags and a legal advisor so take 4 copies for them to hand in and one for your ex.

Standinguptononsense · 07/10/2018 19:50

Thank you so so much. Glad it reads okay. I'll make the amendments now. Xxx

OP posts:
shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 19:50

*what he is wanting. Not Hat.

shallichangemyname · 07/10/2018 19:51

And short shrift. Sorry for my typing!

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