SIL has not vaccinated my nieces

[Pittcuecothecookbook]

My baby has been booked in for her vaccinations soon. I asked my sister in law, who has primary school aged kids, about the experience and I was flabbergasted when she said she didn't get their jabs. I can't quite believe it!

When I asked why, she said the risks outweighed the pros but she struggled to articulate what the risks were beyond 'potential death'. I said that that was also the downside of not getting the jabs too! She said she was persuaded when her friend said that the jabs couldn't be undone if her kids had a reaction.

AIBU to be shocked and quite disappointed about this? I'm not looking forward to it by any means, but the eradication of many awful diseases and protection against those still prevalent is surely a non negotiable?

When her kids don't get these diseases, she'll be vindicated but that will likely be because the majority have had their jabs rather than proving jabs were unnecessary.

I imagine I'll get over this - my child will be protected - but I'm just at hearing this news.

"@keelingfingerscrossed more like adding a bit of balance to the outright venom spouted at anyone questioning anything about vaccines ....". Absolute bollocks @cath. Look through the thread and see where the unsolicited insults have come from.

And @sue come on - just bloody own it. You are absolutely anti-vax and it is clear for all to see.

to the people who say they never had any vacs and are not dead
the reason fir that is that EVERYONE else did so you are protected by herd immunity ..just be thankful for that !!!!!!!!!

That doesn't even make sense. I only ever had the polio and smallpox vaccines as there were no other vaccines on offer and I am still here to tell the story, as is most of the rest of my generation.

There are still an awful lot of deadly diseases out there for which no vaccines have been invented. Will babies in twenty years time be given a schedule with some two hundred vaccines on it?

Either extremely dim or just plain stupid not quite sure which.

Coy. Your very right and huge amounts of people are like you and your words I feel are not far wrong.

There are huge ongoing debates about over vaccinated dogs. It’s now generally accepted that dogs who are over vaccinated are more likely to develop allergies and cancer.

Yet even dare suggest this could be the case in humans and the outrage for even SUGGESTING it is things like this thread.

It doesn’t mean vaccines aren’t wonderful and it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t but it mean we need CAUTION and thought. These debates don’t happen enough right now and yet we have rising chronic illness in young people and no one knows why

called you’re quite right re vaccinating cats and dogs..

And I’m quite sure that there are many lurkers who would like to engage in this debate but won’t because PPs like Mairy will relentlessly try and ridicule them.
It’s almost become like a religion ...

my understanding of the way disease works means I don’t fear it

If you were living with the lifelong effects of measles, as I am, I'm sure you'd feel differently and there's not a chance I'd expose my daughters to the same risk - and are you seriously trying to suggest that I and the rest of my neighbours caught our childhood diseases sue to a lack of breastfeeding/nutrition?

I also seriously doubt the validity of someone who claims to have a medical background but doesn't know the difference between affect and effect - it's not a criticism of spelling but the two mean different things, relevant if not critical in medicine and science.

I’ve also had measles so I know that it i not inherently dangerous. Complications arise for different reasons ...and yes nutritional status is part of it as is how the disease and previous issues have been dealt with
And not all children who came into contact with it (in the days before measles vaccination) caught it either so yes there’s susceptibility there also.

Fair point re effect and affect ... it was late and I’m tired and trying typing quickly and in any case autocorrect is always making me look like I can’t spell!

And just for the record, you don’t need a medical background to be interested in this anyway. It doesn’t preclude you from be8ng able to research and critically analyse things for yourself and have an opinion. I’ve had three careers in my life and I know enough to know that formal training in anything doesn’t make you an all knowing expert in it. People generally only know what they are taught in the field they are in... which can be quite limited

Tell me 'Cath, do you read 'What the Doctor doesn't tell you?
This is simply a 21st century luxury.
I'll bet you wouldn't be feeling like this 150 years ago, when death of your children was commonplace due to illnesses we can now protect against.
Visit any graveyard and you'll see.
Do you think people didn't grieve as much then as now if they sat and watched their child die?

Grammar 150 years ago malnutrition was rife as was appalling sanitation and lack of clean water ...or do you not realise that plays a huge part in disease outcome?
I believe mortality has fallen because this is no longer the case.

What you believe is up to you ...

Called. I work in this area all my working life pretty much and I get told I’m anti on here because I want people to use there own common sense and decide for themselves.

I know what your relating to in dog vaccinations and I have some feelings along the lines you talk.

The more you prevent the more the natural immune system dosent kick In in my opinion. It’s a opinion I base on my own research and findings.

What I mentioned before is very relevant research is sponsored and funded by private companies and charity’s but of course also by the government in any country. And when the findings don’t come out as the funding body likes then it’s published fully at a very high risk to instantly loosing the said funding. Especially when government funded.
Governments make decisions and often want the back up after there decision not before.so when things are not black and white as they like it to be then what information gets released ..... well u can fill in the blanks.

Science is a set of results that have no exact right or wrong answers in general it’s down to the interpretations of the researcher which is why we can have the same results but numerous opinions on the results.

The best immunity any one can get is actually from getting the virus or disease/infection which I realise sounds very stupid. But chicken pox is a good example as it’s very very rare to catch it twice with the immunity you get from having it.

If we could catch virus or get an infection and then stop it immediately or at least limit its effects on us to a bare minimum we would be far better immune and natural immunity of something also helps in immunity to other virus and infections.
Unfortunately there are some things that are life threatening and very serious virus or infection that the risk is too high so I see vaccination as a good thing then of course.
But I do think we are unfortunately heading the way of trying to prevent so much that it will in the future if not already be having a down side effect on us too.

A vaccination takes a part of a virus etc which means yes you are immune but only to that specific hence the flu vax needing to be changed yearly to the more predominant virus that year so it also means that a variation on that virus you are not immune too hence the problems last year with the polio virus and the vaccinations that mutated causing more people that came into contact with those vaccinated to end up with the polio virus from the vaccine than had caught in a normal way.
So those that shout about non vax or anti vax people putting others at risk well this was the total opposite and the vaccinated infected the non vaccinated.

I do think that the high uptake of vaccinations makes the choice not to vaccinate that much easier, simply because the risk of catching an illness is lower thanks to herd immunity.

You may be right in saying that good nutrition, extended breast feeding etc offers protection. I breastfed for 3 + years and my children were very healthy. Still had febrile convulsions, always on the first spike so before we knew they were ill and before they had any anti pyretics. They still had all of there vaccinations though.

No way was I prepared to gamble with their health and risk them catching a preventable disease and suffer long term complications.

With regards to over vaccination of cats and dogs - our vet explained that this is because of yearly boosters. We don't have yearly boosters for humans so it is not the same situation.

If the decision not to vaccinate affected only you, or your children, then I would withhold any opinion but it doesn't. Un vaccinated children have the ability to infect many vulnerable people and there is no way to protect ourselves against this.

If there was a social consequence of ot vaccination ie banned from school, nursery, play venues etc would you still not vaccinate?1

Up until the 1960s the leading cause of death in the children was infection, oddly enough this sharp decrease in child mortality rates coincided with the introduction of many of the same vaccines we use today. Wonder why that is....?

@Suewiang

Hasn't the polio vaccine always been a risk to the un vaccinated though?

I remember when my children were vaccinated against polio we were warned not to allow unvaccinated people to change nappies for a certain length of time as there was a risk of passing polio on in this way.

@Suewaing this is purely aimed at you (I’m concerned Mairy’s Head might explode if she reads it), but I thought you might be interested in this in terms of the interpretation of results etc. I’m not endorsing it, but I do think it’s interesting
www.whale.to/b/lanka7.html

Any live virus is is a higher risk

arthuritis Which leads to my next contentious point ... you say your children were very healthy but still had febrile convulsions etc associated with fever and that they were vaccinated?
My unvaccinated child and none of my unvaccinated friends children have ever had this. My own experience has been a small number of very mild short lived fevers

I have read about Stefan Lanka some time ago it’s very interesting and yes the know it all will have some nuts opinion

I'm wondering how asthma inhalers fit into the "drugs cause the problem" delusion. I reckon my son would be dead without them, but here I'm basically being told they are the issue

greathat there’s a lot of research on this topic and if you look carefully into the history of asthma, there were no deaths before inhalers were introduced. It’s not my main topic of interest, but from what I remember when inhalers first came on the market they caused so many deaths that they were taken off ... before a less dangerous one was developed .
And asthma, a chronic immune condition affecting children and on the increase
I’d say more but this is off topic and I’m not sure you’d be interested ... but if you are, then say

Thanks sue yes it’s fascinating

greathat I realise thst was prob unhelpful so ill expand slightly. Dr John Mansfield (former president of the British society of allergy and environmental medicine) Dr David Freed (former lecturer in immunology) came to the following conclusion regarding the treatment of asthma:
“It is the doctors who have turned asthma into a killer. Any drug that effectively reverses constriction and inflammation of the airways, renders the patient more susceptible to the direct toxic effects of the particles and chemicals the constriction was trying to remove, and therefore is likely to increase mortality”

But obviously no one should just stop their asthma medication once they’ve started ...but should certainly look into the causes, aggravation’s and try to reduce it...

you say your children were very healthy but still had febrile convulsions etc associated with fever and that they were vaccinated?
My unvaccinated child and none of my unvaccinated friends children have ever had this.

Unvaccinated members of my family had them. Their vaccinated children didn't. Children have had febrile convulsions from long before the arrival of vaccines. You're reaching rather desperately there.