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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

SIL has not vaccinated my nieces

999 replies

Pittcuecothecookbook · 12/08/2018 19:49

My baby has been booked in for her vaccinations soon. I asked my sister in law, who has primary school aged kids, about the experience and I was flabbergasted when she said she didn't get their jabs. I can't quite believe it!

When I asked why, she said the risks outweighed the pros but she struggled to articulate what the risks were beyond 'potential death'. I said that that was also the downside of not getting the jabs too! She said she was persuaded when her friend said that the jabs couldn't be undone if her kids had a reaction.

AIBU to be shocked and quite disappointed about this? I'm not looking forward to it by any means, but the eradication of many awful diseases and protection against those still prevalent is surely a non negotiable?

When her kids don't get these diseases, she'll be vindicated but that will likely be because the majority have had their jabs rather than proving jabs were unnecessary.

I imagine I'll get over this - my child will be protected - but I'm just Shock at hearing this news.

OP posts:
MairyHole · 16/08/2018 17:24

Mandatory and mandatory for school attendance is not the same.

Note I said the Americas not just the US, anyway.

On the individual point, the point I was trying to make is that there are risks and benefits in both vaccinating your daughter now and not vaccinating her now. The risks in both cases are quite unlikely to materialise. That's all I said, didn't disagree with you really.

MairyHole · 16/08/2018 17:25

No idea re chicken pox, other countries vaccinate, I think it's odd we don't. Probably cost saving more than anything.

CoteDAzur · 16/08/2018 17:28

Mairy - I don't know anything about South Amerca. If you AS my name, you can find a good Game Theory paper that explains why a disease can't be eradicated with voluntary vaccination.

MairyHole · 16/08/2018 17:31

Because of hold outs? Interesting, I'll take a look thanks. Two members of my family were born deaf and unable to speak due to rubella so I think it being eradicated worldwide would be awesome.

Here's the link about eradication in the Americas:
www.paho.org/hq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10798:2015-americas-free-of-rubella&Itemid=1926&lang=en

Arthuritis · 16/08/2018 17:34

@Cathmidston

So if most people decided not to vaccinate and MMR or whooping cough were rife would you still not vaccinate? Or is your decision not to vaccinate based on the fact that these diseases were quite rare (though rising now) because so many parents do vaccinate?

I only ask this question based on my friend's reaction - that she would not allow her unvaccinated children to mix with other un vaccinated children in case they gave her children anything. But was very happy to mix with my children because they were vaccinated and therefore " safe".

SummerStrong · 16/08/2018 17:40

My DC were vaccinated against CP, not in the UK (it was private healthcare) and was an expensive vaccination (the most expensive in my memory) so I'm guessing it's not affordable for the NHS to offer this (as it's not life a life threatening illness)

YouCantStopTheSignal · 16/08/2018 17:59

CP vaccine costs £65 per dose at Superdrug and two doses are needed.

I'm sure I read somewhere that there was early stage consultations about offering it as part of the standard vaccination programme but can't find anything about it now so I must have been mistaken. The NHS does currently offer it free of charge to at-risk groups though.

Cathmidston · 16/08/2018 18:34

@Arthuritis I appreciate your question and honestly no I wouldn’t... my understanding of the way disease works means I don’t fear it. For instance if there was a measles outbreak at my child’s school for instance I wouldn’t be any more concerned about it than I am now.

I think your friends attitude is odd but I’m sure quite a few non vaxxers feel the same way if the comments on here are anything to go by... but it’s not a view I share obviously

idonthaveatattoo · 16/08/2018 18:34

Cote

Good posts.

Arthuritis · 16/08/2018 18:52

@Cathmidston
I appreciate your honesty.

Not trying to be antagonistic, this is a genuine question.

I have a compromised immune system and I work in a public facing role. I am genuinely very scared of contracting a serious infection. I have had chicken pox and rubella as a child but that is all. Drs seem to think that I may still be at risk from catching CP if exposed again.

For what reason are you not concerned about these illnesses?

RoadToRivendell · 16/08/2018 19:09

Cathmidston

Arthuritis I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can categorically say that the notion of herd immunity has nothing to do with my decision

Sorry if you've already answered this, but which immunisations have you opted out of, and do you mean to say that you'd willingly expose your unprotected child to a preventable, deadly disease?

It seems that you're being a bit coy here, what are you relying on to protect your children from the vaccine-related diseases if not herd immunity?

bellinisurge · 16/08/2018 19:17

My US family were horrified that CP vaccination wasn't part of the standard programme. I was ok with it as was dd but dh got it as an adult and it was ghastly. One of DD's schoolmates got it and it was equally ghastly.

MairyHole · 16/08/2018 20:02

It's a difficult one with CP. Most people I know have vaccinated but I am reluctant to do so when the population at large does not because vaccination doesn't work for everyone, so there's a higher risk of catching it later when it could be nasty
Then again, CP can have serious complications. I am struggling to find much reliable guidance as to which option would provide better immunity in this type of circumstance.

MissConductUS · 16/08/2018 20:36

My US family were horrified that CP vaccination wasn't part of the standard programme.

It's required here for school attendance. There's a version of the MMR vaccine that includes it (MMRV). It wasn't that long ago that the NHS did include it as part of the standard regime. And it is a really awful illness.

www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2014/may/15/real-reason-british-public-chickenpox-vaccine-shingles

MissConductUS · 16/08/2018 21:07

but I am reluctant to do so when the population at large does not because vaccination doesn't work for everyone, so there's a higher risk of catching it later when it could be nasty

The vaccine provides very good protection for 10-20 years with two inoculations.

Varicella Vaccine Effectiveness and Duration of Protection

MairyHole · 16/08/2018 21:15

Thanks, that's really interesting, will take a look at the link in more detail. I also just read another study which showed that children who were vaccinated in countries where most people weren't vaccinated retained immunity better because of repeated exposures to the virus. Food for thought.

GinPink · 16/08/2018 21:17

I couldn't even read this. People who don't vaccinate are gullible, selfish, stupid and idiotic twats.

Cathmidston · 16/08/2018 21:46

@Arthuritis don’t worry I know you’re not being antagonistic.
I’ll try and explain very briefly and as simply as I can. I realise it’s not a mainstream viewpoint
I’ve spent a long time looking into this and I believe that symptoms are an intelligent response by the body to resolve an issue within itself, be it from emotional, chemical or physical stress. Suppressing symptoms, in my view, is one of the worst things you can do in terms of long term resolution. Interfering with a fever, for instance (pretty much a stock response by so many people), means you’re preventing an important elimination method which drives the toxicity deeper and creates problems later on.... just one example. As does interfering with the gut biome
Outcomes from these illnesses are largely dependant on the underlying health, nutritional status etc but are also dependant in how previous symptoms were dealt with.... if that makes sense. So I don’t believe any of these illnesses are inherently dangerous, though they can be if the aforementioned points are an issue.
Additionally they only occur in susceptible individuals. Individuals that for whatever reason require these types of elimination responses to resolve an issue.
Vaccination in my view compromises the immune system. I can outline why for instance what I believe is the mechanism for increasing allergies (if anyone is interested), although this is just one part of the problem I have with them.

So to answer the other question as to what I do to protect my child. I make sure their nutrition and emotional/physical health is as best as it can be and I do not suppress symptoms. I breast fed for 3 yrs. I’ve had my child around people with mumps and also chicken pox with no result... which simply indicates to me my child either doesn’t need to develop symptoms or they were so mild as not to be noticed.

What I would do if I was you, in order to protect myself, would depend on the reason you are immunocompromised. I suspect it’s down to medication you are taking but I don’t know. Feel free to pm me if you want to ask anything outside this thread.

@RoadToRivendell I hope that goes some way to answering your question too. And no, my child’s had no vaccinations. There was some anecdotal examples given earlier so I’ll add my own. Said child incredibly healthy, no allergies, no ear infections, no behavioural issues, no asthma/ eczema etc etc

The problem I have with the typical western medicine approach is it is set up to suppress symptoms and to never deal with the cause. I was extremely ill a few years ago and the hospital treatment I received nearly killed me... a really big learning curve as to just how fallible this approach is

Cathmidston · 16/08/2018 21:57

Just wanted to add that as a society we are primed to fear symptoms and quash them rather than look at what the body is trying to achieve

MairyHole · 16/08/2018 21:58

"The problem I have with the typical western medicine approach is it is set up to suppress symptoms and to never deal with the cause"

...except vaccines, surely, which eliminate the disease (can even eradicate it) and therefore the cause of symptoms?!

You don't believe vaccines work either, don't forget that one.

MissConductUS · 16/08/2018 22:02

I don’t believe any of these illnesses are inherently dangerous, though they can be if the aforementioned points are an issue.

Bacterial infections can be dangerous when their metabolic products are toxic. Viruses can kill or wound you in a variety of ways. Smallpox, for example, kills by rupturing cell membranes to the point of organ failure.

There are a great many infectious diseases that are inherently very dangerous for anyone who contracts them.

RoadToRivendell · 16/08/2018 22:03

So you think that if you assiduously look after your children's health, they can resist polio, for example?

There's much to criticise about Western medicine, but it's the best that we've got.

Cathmidston · 16/08/2018 22:05

I believe vaccines interfere with the body’s ability to express symptoms and therefore resolve issues driving them deeper within and leading to the chronic health conditions that are so prevalent. A-typical measles being a good example of this mechanism being disrupted.

Your viewpoint is different of course which is fine with me

RoadToRivendell · 16/08/2018 22:06

Just wanted to add that as a society we are primed to fear symptoms and quash them rather than look at what the body is trying to achieve

OK, presumably you'd be willing to submit to the all-but-approved Ebola vaccine if you were in the Congo right now?

Cathmidston · 16/08/2018 22:08

Polio isn’t the cut and dried disease it’s made out to be .... a summer disease effecting mainly children and when DDT and mercury use were still prevalent and incredibly widespread. .. both of which are known to cause acute flaccid paralysis in susceptable individuals...esp children