Secretly filmed by DH - Ok to want space?

[papercoversrock]

Ok. Briefly as I can.

Week-long family event (DH's family) a good drive and ferry journey away. So DH, DS and myself travelled down and made a holiday out of it.

5 days into a 12-day-long stay, I discover that my DH filmed us having sex on his cameraphone the night before. It's around 3am and he's fast asleep. I did not know about or consent to the video. I feel shocked and embarrassed and hurt and furious. First time anything like this has happened to my knowledge.

In the morning, I confront DH about it. He leaves the room without a word, then comes back 5 mins later and apologises. He finds apologising hard, so I am touched by his apology, even though he does it in the manner of a 12-year-old being forced by the teacher to say sorry. Then we very quickly have to get ready to go to a family thing.
We then have 7 more days of enforced DH family fun, which I completely go along with, in order not to embarrass my husband or myself, or spoil things for DS. But DH is aware I want to take some distance for a while once we get home.

However, once home, I suggest a week apart from each other and DH's claws come out...

“A whole week? A week??!” “That's not right.” “What am I meant to do for a week?” “Well you can go but you're not taking DS.” And so on.

Am I being unreasonable? Does DH have a point here? I feel like he's lucky I went along to all the family things in the first place and should just say “thank you" and "take all the time you need."

Instead he gives the impression I'm the one being horrible and he's just putting up with my crazy shit.

I just want a week to clear my head.

All thoughts welcome. I know this is AIBU so am prepared to be set straight :)

You've had some fab advice on here. Good luck.

It's absolutely not wrong to feel as you have. It's a horrific thing to have gone through.

My ex would say yes, yes, yes when he got caught out but soon was back to his own ways and telling me -to stop going on about stuff that happen years ago -RSAcre is right about the seesaw and please read her advice carefully.

OP your last post about being a people pleaser was very detailed and very telling. I understand completely that you are wary of throwing away what you hope could still potentially be a good relationship.

But be honest with yourself and make sure that's what you're really thinking, and not doing it because (in your own words) he'll 'be pissed off with you'.

It feels entirely possible that DH is, in fact, a deep-down quite nice man with an inexcusably shit side that he is genuinely prepared to work on.

Hmm. It is possible, yes. But how deep do you have to go? I think genuinely decent, kind people sometimes make mistakes. We all make mistakes. But sometimes something will happen that's not just a mistake but that reveals something deeper about the person.

One thing I sometimes do with these kind of big decisions is just to make the decision one way or another. Don't actually do it, just in your head say "I'm leaving". React to that, then ask yourself what you're feeling and why. Then make the decision the other way. Then how do you feel? Both may be terrifying, in different ways, but most of the time one decision brings with it an overwhelming sense of relief.

I do understand what you mean about not knowing yourself any more. I have depression and when it takes hold, I lose a sense of who I am and don't know if the destructive thoughts are me or depression. Therapy can help you work that out.

NPD can certainly be diagnosed. As the person doesn't see that they're ever wrong though, not truly, treating it is rarely easy, if achievable.

I'm following too OP, since the beginning.

Wishing you well.

Add me to the people recommending RSAcre's very thoughtful analysis of the relationship dynamics at play here.

I'll join the queue too.

I also have personal experience of a N.

To papercoversrocck -
Don't be lulled into a sense of security.

Don't fall into the trap of being 'fair', of assuming the truth or the balance of blame in what happened must fall somewhere in the middle, with the weight of fault or blame evenly or equally divided.

Don't accept or impute to yourself any blame for what happened - you are a people pleaser, yes, and maybe you have a mental or emotional habit of being a martyr, but the end result of that in a relationship is not necessarily or normally what your H chose to do to you. That only happens when someone has crossed many important lines in his own head and ceased to see you as a real, three dimensional human being who is his equal and worthy of complete love, honesty and respect, who honours your body as his own (to go all biblical and wedding ceremonyish).

That's why this sex video is such a gamechanger: I wasn't offering.
You actually do have a gut instinct.
There it is, right there.
Don't shy away from it.
You know what the truth is here.
Hold onto it.

Write that phrase on a piece of paper and stick it to a mirror or onto a surface in your kitchen - somewhere you will see it.
"I wasn't offering".

Keep it in your face. Let yourself feel whatever feelings come to the surface when you consider it.

You say I'm just not sure what to think.
I read that as trepidation about the implications of accepting what your gut is telling you. Try not to rush too far ahead with your thoughts, because fear can generate fog.

I am glad you are considering counseling.

I would investigate your nearest Rape Crisis Centre as a resource.

It’s such a sad list. You just want someone who will come home and be part of your family, not someone who comes home every day, tells you what a shit job you’re doing, eats the meal you’ve prepared and goes off to do their own thing in the house you’ve cleaned but where you’re not allowed to choose a tv show.

Dear OP

You've have done very well to confront this issue and stand up for yourself. You have been affirmed and supported here and been given very good advice.

You need to be firm and resolute - it would be very easy to fall back into old habits - to please him and fit in with him, to compromise on what you want for the greater good. Sure he's given you the space to make the parenting choices but does he actually make all the broader household decisions - moving house, a new kitchen, car, holidays? Do you compromise on other things to an extent you don't even notice? Be honest with yourself.

But please don't turn in on yourself. Many of us were brought up as girls in this way - to get on with and appease men, to let them lead and us follow. My mum certainly did that her whole life and it was the behaviour my sisters and I implicitly accepted without thinking. When I stood up for my own opinion I was seen as a trouble maker, feisty, tricky. 'Oh that's just Boule'.

So please don't blame yourself - you were very likely conditioned that way. Women are more often programmed to be people pleasers and to defer to men.

Also, I do think you should seek out support IRL - from a trusted friend or friends. When I broke up with XH we were going for counselling and I asked a very close male friend to keep honest with me and tell me if I decided to go back to the relationship if he thought I was doing the wrong thing for me. He promised he would. It helped to have reinforcement and someone I trusted to be honest. Find that.

But not someone who thinks it's okay to secretly film their partner.

Hold on to the justness of your response. You were right. He minimised and tried to turn it on you and tried to make you doubt your judgement. Has he fully taken responsibility? Can he be trusted? What's missing in him that it was ever okay for him to think to do it? Is it really one mistake or symptomatic of the gap inside him where integrity should be? Be totally honest about that.

Dear Paper
Wot Boule said. GREAT post, Boule.

Dear other posters.
Thank you for your kind words, that was a 1st Mumnet post (by me). What a great & supportive crew to be found here.

Stay safe & stay strong everyone
RSy
x

I’m back!

Thank you all, so much. I agree, I have been lucky to receive some excellent advice on here.

I still haven’t resolved to do anything either way, and don’t intend to make a decision until I feel – well, decided I suppose.

At the moment, I’m looking back on a lot of incidents over a number of years, some big, some small. And they’re all starting to fall into place and make a lot of sense. It’s a wonderful feeling - things making sense.

Nothing in our history leads me to believe he’s posting porn vids on the sly. But everything leads me to believe he lacks respect for me altogether, and this video is yet another manifestation of that.

At the moment, there’s a lot of thinking to do, and very little time to do it in, because as I said, life goes on. It’s still all nappies and bathtimes and housework and dog walks and three meals a day.
There’s no pause button. But then, having never been a great lover of routine, I’m currently finding that routine keeps me grounded. So it’s swings and roundabouts.

Weirdly, I’m in a good place. Forewarned is forearmed: Thanks to your posts, if DH’s contrition and willingness to listen and change his ways is (and I accept that this is entirely possible) forced and short-lived, then it won’t come as too much of a shock.

However, right now, I’m having my moment. And I’m finding it - what’s the word? Healing? Affirming?
Basically, I feel entirely vindicated and more positive about the future – that is, about my own potential to make that future good, for myself and my son, regardless of the direction I take. I think a stay-or-go decision right now would interfere with all of that.

So, onto the practicalities: I now have a few days in the house to “get my ducks in a row” as advised, and am grateful for practical advice on what that means!! Presumably I go through the filing cabinet and take photos/scans of any relevant financial stuff? He has his electronic devices with him, but anything on paper is kept in the filing cabinet and I have always had access to all that.

I also need to search this thread for the poster who offered to PM with professional advice about finding a counsellor. If you’re following, thank you and please give me a nudge!

There’s more to say, but I’m going to try for a good night’s sleep before DS wakes in the morning.

Regarding “Putting on a front for DS” (sorry, can’t remember who said that.) - I do put on a front for DS sometimes, you are right. However, (notwithstanding his tantrums and tendency to poo at really inconvenient times) he is a daily source of joy – so mostly I don’t need to.

Night all. xxx

Take care OP, your posts have really struck a chord with me.
Good for you taking your time with this and working out what is best for you and DS. Wishing you all the best and thinking of you x

Paper I’ve taken this from a website that lists what to take when you leave an abusive relationship. Regardless of the source, the list is quite helpful to use as a prompt to make sure you don’t forget anything

Birth certificates, Social Security cards, and passports or immigration papers for you and your children
Health insurance cards for you and your children
Financial records, including recent bank statements and stocks or mutual fund records
Housing documents, such as rental agreements, mortgage statements, or the title or deed
Your most recent credit report (you can request one for free (link is external))
The title or lease paperwork for your car
Statements for any retirement plans
The past two years’ tax returns
A written copy of phone numbers or important addresses in case you cannot get to your cellphone or address book

Thank you Alvinne.

Obviously I'm not in a position to give you brilliant objective advice!

All I can say is, I now realise I had a really good intuitive knowledge about how my relationship was going for a lot of years, and I WISH I had trusted myself, and not let my husband persuade me that I was irrational, unreasonable, or whatever.

I even started a couple of threads on here about a couple of individual incidents, and had a wide range of responses, many of them blaming me for the situation. What I couldn't explain at the time was that "This incident did not take place in the context of a normal, healthy, mutually respectful, give and take relationship. This is actually me crying out for someone to tell me my instinct is right."

It took for my husband to commit a criminal offense for me to have the courage of my convictions - and I only really had the courage of my convictions because everyone on here confirmed that my own thoughts on the matter were not silly or melodramatic.

Regardless of the circumstances of your own relationship, what matters is this: if you feel as though your opinions and feelings don't always count - as if YOU don't always count - you will get strength from telling your story in full. And you will find support here.
If it all "strikes a chord" because you have been through a similar thing and come out the other side, then sorry for the unnecessary advice. And also, Well Done! and Please Advise! :)
Either way, thank you for the post. And take care.
xxx

Noted, Foxache, thank you!

ohfourfoxache Does it say whether everything has to be originals? Obviously there are some things, like passports, that I need in my hand. But are photocopies or scans of some financial records ok?

Here’s the full link, I can’t see a reference to originals/copies but I’m a bit bleary eyed!

www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/domestic-violence/leaving-abusive-relationship

My guess would be that original certificates/passports would be needed but as long as there is account information and proof of transactions/how much I’d hope that would be sufficient

Just wanted to say you're doing great

This link is to a book I am just starting to slowly work my way through - very useful to anyone affected, or who wishes to recommend to chums.

It's absolutely spot-on. Lundy Bancroft, who funnily enough I seem to recall being mentioned elsewhere on mumsnet (I'm still v new here so sorry if this is already common knowledge) - this one is called
"Why Does He Do That? - Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men"

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000Q9J0RO/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21

Thanks foxache DS is just settling now, so I'll have chance to look once he's properly asleep. And newusername that's so kind, thank you.
Funnily enough, RSAcre, I bought that book ages ago. At the time, I read it cover to cover and it did make me ask questions about my own relationship. But really I had bought it for a friend who was going through so much worse.

I've been following and have to say I'm quite relieved to see things falling into place for you, and that you're able to face it.

In terms of planning, don't forget anything precious or sentimental you want to protect. I moved some photo albums and similar irreplaceable things out of the house when I started thinking along the "maybe I'm going to leave" lines. I also tried to remove things I didn't want him to have access to if I left in a hurry, and took a stash of practical things like clothes, towels, sheets, toiletries etc so I wouldn't be left with nothing if that happened.

Take originals of things you need to prove ID and ownership. Most other things are ok as photocopies as you just want the data they hold not the document itself.

It's great that you've been reading and listening and allowing yourself to process it. Reading your post about how maybe you'd just convinced yourself he was abusive... I remember going through similar. I talked myself into believing I was being unfair to him. I wasn't. You're not.

If you get the chance, doing the Freedom Programme in person might help with the processing. You'll get the discussions, and additional examples, chance to ask questions, more space for nuance...

You sound stronger than me, but I think if I'd only had the book and not all the things I heard on that course as well (and the way they treated me, seeing their reactions when I did mention something he'd done or ask a question) was what helped me get from "this is my fault, I'm being too harsh, I'm just making excuses for my own behaviour driving him to it" to "this is wrong, I don't deserve to live like this, I can have a better life, I'm going to make it happen".

There's so much conditioning involved in abuse. It takes time to break through that brainwashing, and then from there to feel able to act. You seem to have been walking that road of slowly being presented with evidence and filing it away somewhere else until you were ready to deal with it. And now you are ready you can put all those pieces together.

You'll probably find lots of things coming back to the surface, things you'd pushed away. It's temporary, and it's part of your brain figuring this out and showing you what you need to know but weren't ready to face before.

I also had online support. I'm really glad you posted here and you've been able to receive the support you needed. It makes such a difference, doesn't it?

Keep going, you're doing really well.

Quick thought, have you read the "daily wisdom" version of Lundy Bancroft's book? It's aimed more at the processing and rebuilding stage that you're at now. I quite liked it. You might find it helpful as a source of strength and hope.

I know the ship has sailed on public opinion here but I'm not convinced secretly scanning stuff and making sneaky preparations to leave is any less of an abuse of trust than the filming.

He is horrendous

Pervert
He is an abuser also

Please leave

busybarbara

Ops doing what she needs to protect herself.
If there's anything that's unfair about it it's that she's been put in the position to need to do this.
That's not her fault, that's his fault.. what ops does now, besides violence, she is justified in doing.

*I know the ship has sailed on public opinion here but I'm not convinced secretly scanning stuff and making sneaky preparations to leave is any less of an abuse of trust than the filming.

@busybarbara*

The OP's husband abused more than her trust dear.
Have you READ the whole thread, i.e. including all her responses?
FFS.
If a stranger had filmed her having sex. would you insult & undermine her for being so impolite & "untrusting" as to call the cops?
Have you no idea how bloody dangerous coercive controllers are when thwarted?

Prepping for quick flight is not an abuse of trust in this specific situation. It's a safeguarding procedure for the OP & her child.

*busybarbara here’s a clue: one of these is a criminal offence. Can you spot the difference now?