Secretly filmed by DH - Ok to want space?

[papercoversrock]

Ok. Briefly as I can.

Week-long family event (DH's family) a good drive and ferry journey away. So DH, DS and myself travelled down and made a holiday out of it.

5 days into a 12-day-long stay, I discover that my DH filmed us having sex on his cameraphone the night before. It's around 3am and he's fast asleep. I did not know about or consent to the video. I feel shocked and embarrassed and hurt and furious. First time anything like this has happened to my knowledge.

In the morning, I confront DH about it. He leaves the room without a word, then comes back 5 mins later and apologises. He finds apologising hard, so I am touched by his apology, even though he does it in the manner of a 12-year-old being forced by the teacher to say sorry. Then we very quickly have to get ready to go to a family thing.
We then have 7 more days of enforced DH family fun, which I completely go along with, in order not to embarrass my husband or myself, or spoil things for DS. But DH is aware I want to take some distance for a while once we get home.

However, once home, I suggest a week apart from each other and DH's claws come out...

“A whole week? A week??!” “That's not right.” “What am I meant to do for a week?” “Well you can go but you're not taking DS.” And so on.

Am I being unreasonable? Does DH have a point here? I feel like he's lucky I went along to all the family things in the first place and should just say “thank you" and "take all the time you need."

Instead he gives the impression I'm the one being horrible and he's just putting up with my crazy shit.

I just want a week to clear my head.

All thoughts welcome. I know this is AIBU so am prepared to be set straight :)

Making it all about him is not an apology.

I still don't think he understands what he did wrong. He doesn't really sound sorry because he doesn't get it. I don't know how you can move on with someone who doesn't understand what a huge breach of trust this was

Utterly self-absorbed. He's not going to be able to keep this up for much longer (he's not really keeping it up now). Very soon he's going to turn nasty because what he no doubt sees as playing your game, which is very difficult for him, isn't working.

He thinks that what he did wasn't so bad, he thinks he's apologised, he thinks you're over-reacting and he's going to lose patience if you don't let it drop. He's on a very short fuse, evidenced by the fact that he can't leave you alone for a few days to think things over.

Watch out for the backlash that is surely coming- he's going to get onto the front foot any minute now. He's not used to you pushing back, and he's going to show you just how much he doesn't like it.

That is a complete non apology isn't it!!!

He "wants to see DS" but gardening and Footie are more important! Your need for space isn't important or accepted hence the harassment...

His life is completely him him him - he wanted to film you, he wants only a few hours with DS - your feelings or DS don't even get consideration

None of the apology is about you.

I'm sorry OP

I really for you in this situation
Okay I would only facilitate his access to your ds
Text him that he will be available for pick up at xx time and you expect him to be dropped off at xx time - all iMessage of suit you
And then not even be there, let someone else be there for the pick up
He needs to physically feel this took
It will take time or it may not sink in at all
Good luck

So sorry, Paper. Remember, this is your real life and only you can decide how you want to proceed so don't feel weak if you try to work things out for the sake of your family. I think this has been a crystallising moment for you, though, and you can now see through your husband, the person he really is, and how he treats you. You can't unsee this.

BlueBug yes he's deleted. However, I sent myself a copy from his phone because at the time I wanted the evidence of what he'd done. That means the video now exists in perpetuity

I think you handled that admirably.

He gets worse and worse. It's all about him.

He sounds, and please forgive the analogy for being clumsy.. but he sounds like a child that's been caught being naughty but doesn't quite get why he still can't have a cookie.

I'd also be very concerned he's done it before, from the description it sounded uite premeditated to me on the 'Logistical' level. He must have purposely thought out where to put the phone so as to be blessed to get it out without you catching him Op.
I'd be worried, shoot you're not in the house, that there's some thought in his part as where to hide cameras in future. Check bookcases, wardrobe tops and shelves in the bedroom on your return.

He also sounds very emotionally manipulative. He's all about what your actions are doing to him, naught about what his actions are doing to you.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" isn't really someone being sorry for their actions IYSWIM.

I couldn't live, trust, love or be with someone like that.

An apology should be an apology. If it is sincere there will be nothing else in it. No excuse in it. No thinly veiled accusation in it. No poor me in it. No chit chat. It will be to the point - I am sorry and what the apology is actually for, followed by more apology.

Well done OP on staying strong.

If it wasn’t this it would be something else because this is his character. Everytime you think you’ve put one fire out another one appears because the underlying source of those fires is his disrespect of your boundaries. Everything is framed from his POV, the current stalemate isn’t a consequence of his behaviour but a consequence of your inability to let his appalling behaviour go.

The normal (that you’re desperate to get back to) is that familiar sense of unease that him ‘getting his own way’ usually affords. You’ve normalised his poor character traits to such an extent, that any weak arsed self serving apology is greeted with a small dose of ‘well he’s at least trying because he’s never apologised before’. I understand the pull for the familiar is strong but if you don’t make a stand now, you know that the future is just more of the same same but different.

Stay strong and hopefully this can be a turning point but I fear that his personality traits are far too ingrained and he doesn’t care to care enough, to be different.

it's empty isn't it?

To me, it's actually worse than that ... it's chilling No empathy, no remorse, not even a commitment to treat you as a cherished wife, just a rather business-like focus on his own needs and wants

IME you just can't reach people like that; they may parrot a few useful phrases which seem suitable to the occasion but there's nothing behind it. You might get beyond whatever the current problem is, but the same attitude just comes blasting back with the next one

Believe me I know it's not easy, but instead of spending effort on trying to make him see what he refuses to, I'd use it instead in building a better future without him

Been following but not commented before OP. But this gave me chills -

"It's "I do respect your need for space" but at the same time "It will be easier for me to give you your space when I go back to work and am occupied.""

You're his toy. His play thing. He sees no problem with pestering harassing using you until his attention is turned elsewhere. And to me this speaks to why he did it in the first place.

I'm not going to say you should leave him etc as only you know your life and can make your decision. But I've had that last sentence in my head all day and i couldn't shake it. Please know and ALWAYS remember you are more than his toy to be played with and positioned and emotionally blackmailed into what and how he wants you to behave.

You are more than his equal and deserve to be treated as such!!

Thanks again for all of the support.
I dropped off DS last night and, rightly or wrongly, I did end up talking with DH about all of this sooner than I was ready.
He was disarmingly apologetic and everything you would expect from a normal, good man.
He didn't make it about him.
I was honest as hell, and more assertive than I've ever been in my life.
The outcome is that he knows there's nothing he can say that can make me trust him, and says he's prepared to do anything I ask and abide by any ground rules I set, just to get a second chance.

So here's a fun game: Now I'm in the driving seat, what challenges must he overcome to win back my heart?

Joke answers very welcome, as I could do with a laugh.

But in all seriousness, how do I know he means what he says? What conditions and ground rules can I set that prove his commitment to change and protect me and my son, in case he is in fact the irredeemably dirty, lying, devious, self-serving prat that a lot of people, perhaps rightly, think that he is?

I do intend to go to him with a serious list of stuff and say "Here are the conditions upon which I come back. You break any one of them and I'm gone for a lot longer than a week."

So, what goes on the list??

DH does not yet know I'm even remotely intersted in giving him a second chance, btw. So I can still change my mind.

My current, but perhaps (probably) warped, thinking is that we go and see a divorce lawyer together and arrange our settlement now, so that if he pulls a trick like this again I don't have all that to face.

Or he commits to putting a lump sum plus a set amount in an ISA in my name. After 5 years, we review our situation, and if I trust him and want to stay with him, the money goes in DS account.

I'm not money obsessed. It's just that I'm a competent, decent-earning professional, but since DS came along I quit my job and I've been very much wifey at home and have very little now. If we divorce, I'll struggle.

Other conditions:
For every hour DH is at football or whatever, I get an hour's leisure time.

For every hour I'm with DH at a family event, he has to come with me for an hour to playgroup or the park or on a dog walk.

For every nappy I change during his time off, he changes one or even two.

For every bathtime and bedtime I do during his time off, he does equal.

On his next week or two off, he gets to be me. He gets DS, the dog, playgroup, mealtimes, bath and bed and all the laundry and housework and other shite to juggle for two entire weeks.. I get to go to “work" which in my case would be the job centre or the library to study for a translation qualification.
When I get back from “work” I get to make jokes about how badly he is looking after the house, then treat myself to a lie down because I've been working so hard all day. If he has looked after the house very badly, I get to complain about it.
The remote control is mine, and mine alone. He can borrow it while I'm out.
Other conditions:
For every hour DH is at football or whatever, I get an hour's leisure time.
For every hour I'm with DH at a family event, he has to come with me for an hour to playgroup or the park or on a dog walk.
For every nappy I change during his time off, he changes one or even two.
For every bathtime and bedtime I do during his time off, he does equal.
On his next week or two off, he gets to be me. He gets DS, the dog, playgroup, mealtimes, bath and bed and all the laundry and housework and other shite to juggle for two entire weeks.. I get to go to “work" which in my case would be the job centre or the library to study for a translation qualification.
When I get back from “work” I get to make jokes about how badly he is looking after the house, then treat myself to a lie down because I've been working so hard all day. If he has looked after the house very badly, I get to complain about it.
The remote control is mine, and mine alone. He can borrow it while I'm out.

Other conditions:
For every hour DH is at football or whatever, I get an hour's leisure time.

For every hour I'm with DH at a family event, he has to come with me for an hour to playgroup or the park or on a dog walk.

For every nappy I change during his time off, he changes one or even two.

For every bathtime and bedtime I do during his time off, he does equal.

This sounds like the absolute minimum standard!

OP I've been reading all your posts. It sure if you're joking but your list of demands made me really sad for your. If those are what you would really want from him, it's really sad reading. Expecting your DH to parent his 50% when he's home from work is normal, not something to be demanded as punishment for this. For this I'd be expecting the world (not that I'd forgive or go back).

I really can't see any reason for staying myself

*Not sure

Coming up with a divorce settlement now, or getting money put into your name is not an agreement that is enforceable if you do divorce in x years time. I like your idea about him "being you" for two weeks of his annual leave, but if you want to secure your financial future you really need to get him to support you in getting your career back. For that to happen he probably needs to commit to doing more childcare on an ongoing basis so you can train and work longer hours. Maybe cutting his hours so you can step up. Agreeing to do the sick days so your record at work isn't "tarnished" by days off. Possibly moving for your career. Possibly downsizing now so you can take a joint cut in income while you ramp up your work until you're both able to earn more. Etc. Of course that also means you being on board with the stress of rebuilding a career and the loss of time with your DC.

I would put access to all his tech as a condition - so you can check, whenever you please, with no notice. I am skeptical of his never-done-it-before claim so I would consider asking a computer forensic specialist to look at his phone and laptop, but that would be expensive and probably isn't your priority. But you can still look and see that he doesn't have any images of you, hasn't been sharing anything about you, isn't watching porn, whatever it is you do think he might have been doing.

You mentioned earlier that you've felt that he's mistreated you in the past. I think you need to some how incorporate that into your "conditions". I don't know how you feel he's mistreated you in the past so I don't know what conditions might work, but I don't think you can just concentrate on the video issue. From some of the things you say it sounds like he railroads you a bit. You were reluctant about the lingerie photo (enough that you wanted to delete it later) but you agreed to him taking it, you wanted time away and had told him but he (suddenly) wanted time with DS so you agreed, etc. Perhaps an agreement that your no will mean no (for anything about sex(?) or where you have a previous agreement in your favour(?) ) and he won't try and talk you round? You might need some marriage counseling to help you with communication if this has been a long-standing issue. You have said that what you want is a marriage you would feel good about your DC copying - that's what you need to be aiming for.

You, perhaps, want to look at you as a couple too - are you happy with the intimacy you have? Do you need to find ways to increase that? Or make it so it's as much about what you like as what he likes? Do you get to lean on him about your stresses and does he get to lean on you? Are you still enjoying shared interests as much as you used to? I think it is hard when a baby comes along to make time to be "sweethearts" but that bit of your relationship is really important.

Sorry, that's a bit incoherent, but it's late.

Do think about whether you can ever trust him. As you said right at the beginning - it's less that he did something wrong and more that when you told him how upset you were he acted like you were overreacting. He's realised he's going to have to jump through some hoops now to keep what he had, but has he really realised that you are a person just like him and just as important as him? Even if he sticks to a list of conditions, is that going to change him or give you confidence he's seen the light?

OP I agree with tea looking at your conditions really drives home the state of your relationship

Those conditions are ones which in a normal healthy relationship shouldn’t even need to be spelt out. It’s worrying about boundaries that they even need to be said

Does he really berate you and see the remote control as his?

I'm sorry that you are having to go through this but the content of your list of demands would be enough for me to call it a day never mind the filming issue.
Can you ever see yourself being able to relax having sex with him again?